Camelot as a yearling - photo

M

Miesque

At the Start
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Photo courtesy of Demi O'Byrne
 
Could someone explain to me what there is about him that would make a buyer realise his potential. I'd love to be able to look at a horse's conformation and know it was good but, alas, am totally ignorant about such things.
 
moehat said:
Could someone explain to me what there is about him that would make a buyer realise his potential. I'd love to be able to look at a horse's conformation and know it was good but, alas, am totally ignorant about such things.
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As to what you should be looking for in conformation it will vary according to what you would expect from a horse. You’d be looking for certain things in a steeplechaser and quite a different set of criteria in a sprinter.

There are plenty of books on the subject. One with plenty of example photographs is a good way of getting to grips with it.

The Equine Veterinary Journal is an exhaustive source of academic discussion. http://www.evj.co.uk/evj

A more accessible introduction can be found through such sites as http://www.equisearch.com and searching conformation.

Also look at the various thoroughbred owner organisations.
 
A beautiful yearling... You can see why bloodstock agents were falling over themselves to negotiate for him.
 
He was a good-looking little chap, although no doubt there were quite a few others at the sale every bit as handsome.

He's got a particularly good shoulder, even though he's leaning forward a bit, good limbs, not very full-quartered - doesn't look like a speed merchant.
 
I have a picture on my fridge of him at the same sale. I was showing it to a friend of mine and I told him that I thought the yearling he just bought looked just like him. He agreed but added that people used to say he looked just like David Beckham when he was younger.:D
 
His catalogue page - he hails from a family with a Kingmambo/Danehill cross Demi was keen on and the Galileo 2yo sister was in Longfield when Coolmore bought Camelot so they had an idea of what Tarfah was producing.

He's got a beautiful head, well set neck and exceptional shoulder. Good depth of chest and length of back. Plenty of size, scope and strength. The hind quarters and slightly straight hind leg can be forgiven when you see how well he walks - one of the best I've seen. He was cheap at half a million due to the mare being a young producer at the time and the relative lack of black type on his page.
 
The funny thing is he really isn't a stand out yearling from what has to be seen from the photo, many of those go by unnoticed year by year.

What you have to say is how he has flourished as he's got older and puts into perspective how risky yearling purchases can be.

If you could of told me that Camelot today was that horse as a yearling I'd of said you were bonkers.

That's why our sport is great, champions made out of nothing!
 
Bruce_Savage said:
The funny thing is he really isn't a stand out yearling from what has to be seen from the photo, many of those go by unnoticed year by year.

What you have to say is how he has flourished as he's got older and puts into perspective how risky yearling purchases can be.

If you could of told me that Camelot today was that horse as a yearling I'd of said you were bonkers.

That's why our sport is great, champions made out of nothing!
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Coolmore gave over half a million quid for him, they obviously thought that he stood out.
 
Coolmore have endless resources and conformation is only a minor variable in a horse's success, some of the most perfectly put together horses have failed to win maidens.

The point I'm making is that the market is based on solid factors such pedigree because two years down the line when you're trying to sell a mare will a book tell you how she looked? no, it will tell you who she's related to which means families hold, inflate and structure the market.

The edge between buying a bad horse and buying a good horse will be based on your experience to picture what a horse will look like in 2-3 years rather than now although those that can understand the horses behavior will be less inclined to buy a fraud which that picture can't tell us.

I can tell you now that I've seen better horses for £500,000 although just because he's Camelot we're all going into this without being able to look at him as a blank picture, we all know what he's done and subconciously even the more level headed person would struggle to find a level decorum.
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
If you could of told me that Camelot today was that horse as a yearling I'd of said you were bonkers.
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If you had given me that photo and asked me to name who it was I am pretty sure I would have got it in one. It sounds stupid because it is him, but it looks exactly like Camelot. Everything about him, especially his neck and shoulder as others have said, is distinctive.

Bruce_Savage said:
Coolmore have endless resources and conformation is only a minor variable in a horse's success, some of the most perfectly put together horses have failed to win maidens.
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Conformation is a pretty major variable in a horse's success. There are plenty with good conformation who are bad, a few with bad conformation who are good but, nevertheless, there is a good positive correlation between the two. You need only look at the specimens in the paddock at the top meetings compared to a mediocre mid week card to see the difference.

P.S. If you are to sound intelligent Bruce you must stop using 'of' when you mean 'have'. It is a scarily common error which I assume derives from the pronunciation of the abbreviated form '-ve'. ;)
 
As I said on another thread I was an underbidder on him and we weren't the only people in love. If I remember correctly Robert Ogden was strong on him as well.
 
Im notoriously bad at conformationy type of things - all I know is if I like or not, and in his case, I do - quite a lot.

so in my world - he has one thing that would make me interested - he posesses that rare commodity in the horse world "IT" ....
 
Zenyatta said:
If you had given me that photo and asked me to name who it was I am pretty sure I would have got it in one. It sounds stupid because it is him, but it looks exactly like Camelot. Everything about him, especially his neck and shoulder as others have said, is distinctive.



Conformation is a pretty major variable in a horse's success. There are plenty with good conformation who are bad, a few with bad conformation who are good but, nevertheless, there is a good positive correlation between the two. You need only look at the specimens in the paddock at the top meetings compared to a mediocre mid week card to see the difference.

P.S. If you are to sound intelligent Bruce you must stop using 'of' when you mean 'have'. It is a scarily common error which I assume derives from the pronunciation of the abbreviated form '-ve'. ;)
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Sorry fella not quite sure you've spent enough time in racing to be giving out advice on conformation, from what I gather about your time in racing you're relatively new and still learning so I'm going to take precautionary advice and skip everything you've said as it's oblivious to me.

I'll take your advice about grammar, given of course you are a Cambridge Student, time for a pimms young fellow, hurah
 
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We make far too much of grammar in this Kingdom. It's used these days by people with privileged educations to bash those who probably never had the chance to go to grammar school or university. I've heard lecturers swearing in seminars this academic year but at the same time telling me to perfect my grammar:) I just think they should perfect their ego's.
 
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When I've been out all day labouring and come home to sit down on a laptop to have a word on Talking Horses I don't give two hoots whether my grammer is correct all I want to do is talk about horses.

Have a word fella, have a word!
 
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There is no advice about conformation there Bruce but as you see fit.

As for grammar, it is important for conveying the meaning of what you are trying to say. It has nothing to do with people with 'privileged educations' bashing those who don't.
 
Bruce_Savage said:
Sorry fella not quite sure you've spent enough time in racing to be giving out advice on conformation, from what I gather about your time in racing you're relatively new and still learning.
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Remind us all about your background in racing, Bruce. And don't forget to check the spelling.
 
Kauto said:
As I said on another thread I was an underbidder on him and we weren't the only people in love. If I remember correctly Robert Ogden was strong on him as well.
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Yes, Ogden was involved in him too.

Bruce, if you can't see that the horse has above average conformation (although I accept it was his walk which stood out for most) then I suggest you stop haranguing other posters about their grasp of conformation.
 
Like I said before a still picture tells you nothing and you wouldn't have said he was worth £500,000 on that picture alone.

We only hear about the success stories but I can assure you the best horses look different from every angle you look at them and every day they never look the same.

Shouldn't have really given out that information but I think it's time we set down some ground rules.

What would have been interesting though is if Miesque put up a picture of Windsor Palace at Ballydoyle yearling and I'm sure no one would have noticed.

Would have been quite funny really.
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
When I've been out all day labouring and come home to sit down on a laptop to have a word on Talking Horses I don't give two hoots whether my grammer is correct all I want to do is talk about horses.

Have a word fella, have a word!
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its not many weeks ago when you were pulling me up on my grandma ;)..i mean grammer..i mean grammar

glad to see you you have changed your mind so quickly ;)
 
Kauto said:
As I said on another thread I was an underbidder on him and we weren't the only people in love. If I remember correctly Robert Ogden was strong on him as well.
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You mind me asking when you stopped bidding and whether it was further than you had intended to go? I go to the store sales every year and walk in to the ring thinking "we'll have this one" only for the bidding to hit €30k in the bat of an eyelid and end up around €80-90k. Invariably we only bid at the very end of the process when we see where the price is settling and who is moving it up. I'd always be inclined to spend a little more than the budget if I really liked one.
 
Stopped bidding when it became apparent that there was no end in sight. Ironically enough I hadn't planned to try and spend as much as he was going for but everyone involved was in love and thought we'd do are best unfortunately it was never going to be enough. As it turned never ended up a penny near what was bid that year as everything we tried was ridiculously bid.

Had a similar experience this year with a Montjeu and New Approach colt.

I have to say regarding the bloodstock industry at times it feels like a monopoly when bidding for the flat horses and I wonder whether long term this is a good thing.
 
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