Champions Day

Euronymous

Euronymous

Senior Jockey
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
19,122
Location
Leyland
Really looking forward to this now. Chabal hopefully winning a fourth straight Dewhurst for Bolger and the Champion Stakes looks like a race to get the teeth into. Zacinto may be the most opposable favourite of the year. Let's hope they both line up.
 
Never on Sunday must have a decent chance if coming across for the Champions Stakes.
 
Absolutely. Second tier French horses have a great record in the race and I think Newmarket will suit him more than Ascot did. If Sariska and Zacinto turn up he should be a very backable price.
 
Just saw that and I fanced her already for the race, but hadn't put the bet on - now her price has contracted. It's not a vintage field - no real champ in there, sadly, of those certain to run.

I like Zacinto a lot, and sentiment would not mind Twice Over winning a big one - but whichever wins it will be lucky to have bagged this G1 in the absence of better horses. I can't see any way they can remedy the squeeze between the Arc and the Breeders Cup. At least we got a proper Champ last year in New Approach.

Always an enjoyable day out however! A few of our local pubs take a coach
 
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Can't have Sariska at all. Didn't she run in the Fred Darling? That's an awful long season for a filly. I remember Russian Ryhthm running well below form in this after being at it all season.
 
Going to have some small money on Fame And Glory in this....if it rains alot they'll be sorely tempted to run in it instead of the firm ground Santa Anita.
 
Interesting idea, trading at 60 on Betfair. Coolmore have such a hard-on for the BC though, it's really hard to see them going to Newmarket with him.

If Zacinto and Sariska both line up and head the market it will be an excellent race to get involved in.
 
Galileo said:
Going to have some small money on Fame And Glory in this....if it rains alot they'll be sorely tempted to run in it instead of the firm ground Santa Anita.
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Fame And Glory only ran to something like 121 in the Arc, which wouldn't be good enough for this. I'd rather see him finished off now and brought back next season. If he did line up he should in theory take the beating.
 
SteveM said:
Fame And Glory only ran to something like 121 in the Arc, which wouldn't be good enough for this. I'd rather see him finished off now and brought back next season. If he did line up he should in theory take the beating.
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Fame And Glory was ridiculously ridden in the Arc, he would not have got near the winner but he is better than he showed that day. I am hoping if they drop him to 10 furlongs (and it is an if as to weither he lines up) they will ride the horse more positive as is his need. He could easily go the Breeder's Cup Turf route but it's worth a chance.
 
Galileo said:
he is better than he showed that day.
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I agree, but I'm glad you said it. Nevertheless, if we are to believe he ran to the mid 130s in the Irish Champion, 121 is a big drop in form - they don't tend to bounce back by a stone at this stage of the season.
 
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SteveM said:
I agree, but I'm glad you said it. Nevertheless, if we are to believe he ran to the mid 130s in the Irish Champion, 121 is a big drop in form.
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Again with the massive point that regardless of how he was ridden he would not have beaten STS (so everyone is completely clear on that) I cannot for the life of me figure out why he was ridden so negatively early in the race when he was actually reined back early on and travelled beautifully for the first mile or so. He is not the typical hold up, quirky Montjeu with a turn of foot - he is a long striding colt that enjoys to gradually go through the gears and sustain it. But for some reason they continue to ride him like most Montjeu's should be.
 
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Galileo said:
Again with the massive point that regardless of how he was ridden he would not have beaten STS (so everyone is completely clear on that) I cannot for the life of me figure out why he was ridden so negatively early in the race when he was actually reined back early on and travelled beautifully for the first mile or so. He is not the typical hold up, quirky Montjeu with a turn of foot - he is a long striding colt that enjoys to gradually go through the gears and sustain it. But for some reason they continue to ride him like most Montjeu's should be.
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Again I agree. He needs a sustained gallop (unlike his sire who quickened in a twinkling). He does travel beautifully and was very relaxed before the race in the parade and floated down to post. He'd need to find another 10lb to take this though and has no doubt been frustrated and messed about by the way he was ridden.
 
Any thoughts on the ground Gal? Was it not far too quick on the day for F&G? I take your point about the riding tactics, but how much do you think the ground had to do with the poor run (if anything at all)?
 
I find it hard to believe the collective nous of O'Brien and Magnier (plus Murtagh) cannot understand the need for the horse to run a race suited to his stamina, not to run as if he has a turn of foot.

I think the 130s rating for Fame and Glory in the Irish Champions was all, all wrong, and said so at the time. He would have a chance in an ordinary renewal of the Champion Stakes, where a horse running to 124/125 would probably take the spoils, and with give more likely in the ground than not, he would have a better chance than trying to win over 1m2 next season, which must be an aim for Ballydoyle.
 
hezz333 said:
Any thoughts on the ground Gal? Was it not far too quick on the day for F&G? I take your point about the riding tactics, but how much do you think the ground had to do with the poor run (if anything at all)?
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I certainly do nit think it helped hezz but I think that makes their tactics all the more bizarre. He had little chance if producing a turn of foot or quickening up on that sort of ground.
 
Indeed Gal. I think whatever chance i gave F&G of competing with 'The Freak', it went out of my head when i heard how quick the ground was going to ride.
 
Galileo said:
I certainly do nit think it helped hezz but I think that makes their tactics all the more bizarre. He had little chance if producing a turn of foot or quickening up on that sort of ground.
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But might that have had something to do with the rest of the field not playing along with Ballydoyle tactics and ignoring the pacemakers, who were presumably there to set a strong oeverall pace for F&G? The tactics backfired however as Soumillon got to the 'front' behind them and then slowed the pace down, according to several jockey accounts post-race (though not acc to Jimmy Fortune)
 
The Racing Post gave the race a Topspeed rating of 128 vs an RPR of 132, suggesting that it was a truly run race. Without access to sectionals it's difficult to be too certain about such things, but for me the visual backs that up and horses were able to finish off their races from various positions in the pack.

I don't think Fame & Glory has any excuses on that score (unless he was looking for a complete pace meltdown). The ground - likely the fastest he's ever encountered - is the obvious first port of call. And no, that doesn't bode well for Santa Anita!
 
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