Cheating, Is Big Mac Right ?

And I agree.... its a shame they only pointed out this one.I suspect there will not be many rushing to defend the jockey though...he is French.
 
Originally posted by Venusian@Mar 13 2008, 02:50 PM
I've just heard John Francome talking on radio 5 about the use of the whip, and he was saying that only about 20 of the horses he'd ridden actually seemed to go better for its use.

He thought that if it was banned then after a few weeks no one would notice any difference. Also, the better jockeys would come to the fore.
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Exactly. I can't understand any punter being pro-whip.
 
Originally posted by tetley+Mar 13 2008, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tetley @ Mar 13 2008, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Headstrong@Mar 12 2008, 10:09 PM
It's an incredibly difficult thing to get right in the heat of a Grade 1 finish .....
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I don't buy this at all, or are you saying that in your every day run of the mill type race the jockeys don't try hard enough? [/b][/quote]
No - I'm saying that jockeys get ultra-lit-up by Grade 1 and Championship races, just as we do :P
 
Originally posted by Galileo@Mar 13 2008, 03:58 PM
And I agree.... its a shame they only pointed out this one.I suspect there will not be many rushing to defend the jockey though...he is French.
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LOL You are quite right I fear - but that was a a close finish and exactly what I mean - with 65.000 people roaring their heads off and your place in the history books at stake, it's easy to get carried away when there is less than a length between you.

I'm not saying that to excuse it so much as to explain it.
 
Originally posted by Venusian@Mar 13 2008, 01:50 PM
I've just heard John Francome talking on radio 5 about the use of the whip, and he was saying that only about 20 of the horses he'd ridden actually seemed to go better for its use.
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Did he only realise that fact after he retired and had used his whip (more severe than todays) thousands of times in races? From memory he was never averse to giving one plenty of stick when required, surely he was not doing it just for show as he was the best jockey around at the time and has never given the impression he was concerned what people thought about him.
 
Originally posted by Galileo@Mar 12 2008, 08:23 PM
He may have an arguement for Katchit...but his "excuse" was more a reason. There is no excuse for hitting a horse on the ribs....horse coming back on him or not.
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I think you'll find was that the excuse wasn't the reason for hitting him in the ribs per se (he didn't set out to do it) but more that the way the horse was going and the way he was moving the whip ended up landing in the wrong place although aimed correctly. There is a difference.

As for the tree huggers who want the whip banned - can I be allowed a few hours alone with them?!?!?! :D
 
Originally posted by Dante+Mar 14 2008, 07:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dante @ Mar 14 2008, 07:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Venusian@Mar 13 2008, 01:50 PM
I've just heard John Francome talking on radio 5 about the use of the whip, and he was saying that only about 20 of the horses he'd ridden actually seemed to go better for its use.
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Did he only realise that fact after he retired and had used his whip (more severe than todays) thousands of times in races? From memory he was never averse to giving one plenty of stick when required, surely he was not doing it just for show as he was the best jockey around at the time and has never given the impression he was concerned what people thought about him. [/b][/quote]
Francome rode for Fred Winter who never hit a horse and wouldn't have stood for his stable jockey thrashing seven bells out of any horse, even a lazy one. The family never got over Pitman losing the GN on Crisp because he whipped the horse, which stopped in shock.

Surely people can understand that a lot of whip use is not just thrashing them - in many cases the jock is hardly touching them at all! - there are other things going on!
 
Hands And Heels winner Tobin: Series has made me better rider

by Graham Green

KEVIN TOBIN, who has won the Racing Post Hands And Heels series of races for conditional and amateur riders with two rounds still to go, believes the competition has taught him a valuable lesson where the whip is concerned.

Charlie Mann's conditional rider cannot be overtaken in the points table following Saturday's outing at Wetherby, and the 22-year-old, who boasts three wins, is convinced he has become a better rider for the experience.

“None of the results would have been any different had we been able to use the stick and the races make you concentrate harder on balance and keeping in rhythm with your horse, which is what it is all about," said Tobin on Sunday.

“Personally, I find as an inexperienced lad that you end up hindering horses more than benefiting them by using the stick, and I have learned to push a horse properly without going for the stick. “Also, when it comes to the time that I have to go for the stick, it has benefited that way as well.”

Tobin, whose father, brother and two uncles plan to make the trip from Ireland for the final race of the series at Newbury on Friday week, has also raised his profile through participating in the series.

“It has not only helped my riding, but I have also ridden for nine trainers who wouldn't haveknown me without it and in that respect it has been a huge help,” he said.

“I now ride regularly for Steve Gollings, and have had a few winners for him, but I wouldn't have ridden for him without the hands and heels series.”

The next Racing Post Hands And Heels contest is this Thursday at Ludlow.
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As I said earlier, I cannot fathom why any punter would not be in favour of banning the whip which can only be described as an aid to cheating.
 

Francome rode for Fred Winter who never hit a horse and wouldn't have stood for his stable jockey thrashing seven bells out of any horse, even a lazy one. The family never got over Pitman losing the GN on Crisp because he whipped the horse, which stopped in shock.

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I suggest you watch some old videos, Observe & Owen Glin (got beaten by a woman) for starters.
As for Pitman on Crisp, I'm not surprised the horse was frightened by that whip action, a sack of spuds would have been more use and the horse would have hacked up with Francome aboard.



Honest Tom, it's not cheating, should a football team be disqualified if it commits lots of fouls and still wins? and if Francome and Tobin are correct the result will very rarely be affected anyway.


How many jockeys get suspended at the Punchestown festival for whip misuse?
 
Originally posted by Dante@Mar 17 2008, 12:59 PM
Honest Tom, it's not cheating, should a football team be disqualified if it commits lots of fouls and still wins? and if Francome and Tobin are correct the result will very rarely be affected anyway.
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Dante, you appear to be saying the whip has no purpose so let's just hang on to it.
 
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