icebreaker
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Hadn't realised that "WOMAN" is now a pejorative term on Planet Politically-Correct.
How more daft can the world become.
How more daft can the world become.
Ched Evans
- Thread starter EC1
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M
marbler
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Interesting read (attached below) here in The Torygraph. Apparantly just 38 percent of 18-24 years olds voted in 2005 election.
I'd firmly argue young people have spent too much time on social networking sites, liberating ourselves on a serial jolly and getting 'friendly' whilst we get fucked over in this country. Only the shrewdest and strongest will survive in this age.
The article try's to show certain things. I'm sure a few on here can relate to being baby-booming, lavished and super rich tossbags.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/youre-under-30-bad-luck-084059815.html
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The Twitter posts she made are on Ched Evans' own site with her name removed for anonymity and there were supposedly facebook posts too that she deleted. She might be "the victim" in the eyes of the law but I'm not so sure. I know people are walking the streets that should be in jail and that innocent people are in jail, keeping their mouths shut to protect others. (I worked in the police and also in a prison). I don't think calling her "the woman" is offensive in any way and it wasn't wrote with any intention to be so. How many males each weekend have sex with someone who's had a few too many? Doesn't make them all rapists. Throw the book at the true rapists (forced inter course) and lock them up for a long time but I don't think Ched Evans fits that category. No consent due to intoxication is a grey area and only years of case law is likely to change it.
EC1
On a break
lets say we have a hypothetical case ... two males are present, and one is cleared of no consent whilst the other is guilty of no consent...and the "victim" can't remember anything of either incident...this is surely a larger grey area and quite puzzling ..how would someone not present afterwards decide one was consent and one wasn't?
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The police seemed to believe every word she said and the fact that she larged it over a possible pay out didnt stop the verdict did it?
Pity the police didnt listen to the hundreds of young girls in rotherham and didnt even take the first step to corroborate the stories.
Pity the police didnt listen to the hundreds of young girls in rotherham and didnt even take the first step to corroborate the stories.
dvds2000
Gone But Not Forgotten
Also, what makes this case even stranger, she didn't actually make a complaint of rape, she went to the police after she couldn't find her handbag, it was only when they were asking her about her night to try to find where the bag was, did the police decide to investigate rape. Both men went to the police voluntarily, made full statements about the night, and admitted sleeping with the victim and what had happened.
EC1
On a break
These are the same police that as Clive says ignored hundreds of cases of sexual abuse when given clear accusations...but at the same time somehow managed to get their efforts filmed whilst using a lot of resources pursuing a well known pop star. If someone jumped to the wrong conclusion they might think that glory hunting for well known "names" seems quite a priority whilst ignoring people who are of little interest publicity wise is the order of the day. That couldn't happen obviously could it? with our justice system being the best in the world and once you are convicted of something you are 100% guilty, no doubt.
What i have found interesting whilst listening to a lot of views on the radio is that once you are a convicted rapist, its deemed 100% as certain. But if you ask 100 people if they would like the death penalty for murder, probably 50 would say no..and when you ask them why they don't agree with it..some of the answers would be..what if you kill someone who didn't do it.
I think if someone is accused of a very serious crime..and rape is in the top 3 serious crimes...anyone convicted of it should have a very solid case made to show that they are guilty...there should be no one afterwards querying it and having any doubt after seeing what was put forward that they are guilty.
Jesus christ. This case sounds all wrong
convicted for being a white rich footballer with no left wing councillors doing their damndest to cover up
EC1
On a break
did you not realise it was the police that brought the charge?..the victim just wanted her hand bag...am i allowed to say "her"?
thats why i say..do you trust people with their track record of priorities?.i don't very much..i've been hearing a lot about them for 6 months...no one seems to care how they go about their business and they have got lots wrong in lots of cases..but most people are unquestioning of them in this case..just happy to accept its sound without question. It may well be..but if it isn't you have destroyed someone's life..obviously it doesn't matter about destroying lives..we've seen that with the other disgraceful Savile abomination of witch hunts by police where decent people have been dragged through the mud..named before proof of guilt..absolute disgrace of a system imo.
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Flagship uberalles
Journeyman
Only you could swing the conversation round to the left / right wing angle.
I would dearly love to know what relevance his race has to the matter at hand?
Just to clarify a few things, this incident took place in Rhyl North Wales did it not? Why would she be reporting a missing handbag to South Yorkshire police the next day? She ain't going to drive to Sheffield to report a missing handbag last seen somewhere between Llandundno and Liverpool. Surely she's reported it to North Wales police (another highly dubious constabulary but outside of the usual media spotlight - no allegation political correctness normally laid against them!). Have they notified South Yorkshire who've then taken the decision to investigate and prosecute, or have North Wales made the request
EC1
On a break
yes it was Wales police.....it used to be Thames Valley that got shown up a lot with poor policing..i think they take it it turns to get caught out..i did just refer to the police in general though..there doesn't seem much difference from one place to another..the Rotherham affair is now being suggested as happening all over the country according to the news the other day..we will never know the full extent i doubt
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-30083835
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Ched's Shed has a ring to it Clive you might be onto something there. I can see why you no longer work in PR though
I think Jessica Ennis probably had no where to go with it in honesty. Your saw how Judy Finnegan got rounded on and she was really expanding on an argument Kenneth Clarke had previously put forward a few years ago
I think Jessica Ennis probably had no where to go with it in honesty. Your saw how Judy Finnegan got rounded on and she was really expanding on an argument Kenneth Clarke
had previously put forward a few years agoExactly. I would have thought you either convict them both or clear them both. I don't believe it was "beyond reasonable doubt" that she was too intoxicated to consent and on that basis Evans shouldn't have been jailed. He didn't help himself when he disappeared out of the fire exit and that looks bad. His pal Clayton McDonald said the woman agreed to have sex with both of them and he left the room when he'd done. It looks worse for Evans as he went there invited by McDonald rather than the woman in question whereas McDonald went back to the hotel with her but she seemed to have cognitive ability and memory when she went to retrieve her pizza from outside. Lots of contentious issues but I think new evidence is needed for an appeal rather than going over what's already been before the courts.
academic now , right or wrong the court of public opinion has decided . I know this isn't provable and if he isn't guilt it is genuinely awful . I can sympathise with the "victim " though . I was raped when I probably wasn't in the best state to defend myself . I was asleep on a sofa after a party and there was more than one of them . I never reported because I had attended that party and I had drink taken so you don't think you're gonna be believed .
icebreaker
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It's a terrible reflection on our police forces and their mindset that a woman victim of a most dreadful assault declines to report it because she is sure that she won't be believed.
I agree Icebreaker , this was 20 years ago but I don't think much has changed
Rape isn't about sex . its about control and violating you mentally . I'm sorry to say it worked . It happened to me a long time ago . I've never admitted publicly that this happened to me because of the shame . The reason I'm explaining this is that there is a project on twitter at the minute called beenrapedneverreported which is giving a voice to persons who have gone through this a. Police protocols have to change and sexual assaults need to be reported as crimes rather than a row between a couple
icebreaker
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Indeed they do. And so also must police attitudes change -- at least among some (male) officers in the force.
So too must societal attitudes change as evidenced by the terrible abuse directed on social media at the girl in the Ched Evans case. Some sections of society including some police and judiciary and even a segment of the broader male population still have a mindset that a rape victim was somehow "asking for it" by her manner of dress or by her intoxicated condition.
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EC1
On a break
no one has said she was asking for anything though in this case..she went willingly and could walk quite ok..check out the actual video evidence on links from this thread..she then apparently consented to sex with one man..but then a few minutes later was so intoxicated she was not able to consent to sex with the other...is that possible?...its either not able to consent to both men through intoxication or if its accepted she was able to consent to the first then surely she was able to say yes or no a little while later...she apparently asked the second man to perform oral sex on her..does that suggest she was unhappy about the situation?
I heard yesterday there is a review of this case..and it will take 36 weeks..wtf?
In the above couple of posts its stated that police are loath to take on rape cases..therefore..does it not seem odd that they actually..went out of their way ...to bring this charge themselves...the victim has never accused CH of rape..does nobody find that a bit odd?
If the girl was so intoxicated..she says she can't remember anything at all..then how come only one man is guilty of rape?
I heard yesterday there is a review of this case..and it will take 36 weeks..wtf?
In the above couple of posts its stated that police are loath to take on rape cases..therefore..does it not seem odd that they actually..went out of their way ...to bring this charge themselves...the victim has never accused CH of rape..does nobody find that a bit odd?
If the girl was so intoxicated..she says she can't remember anything at all..then how come only one man is guilty of rape?
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icebreaker
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To-be-honest EC, I was speaking of rape issues in general and the reaction of some people to the reportage of same. I was considering Solerina's experience rather than addressing the Ched Evans case in particular.