I don't think so, Ben Crenshaw broke a putter in the Ryder Cup (a team event as it happened) ha had to continue using a 1 iron the putt with and duly lost a crucial game to Eamon Darcy
Cheltenham Friday
- Thread starter Melendez
- Start date
I don't think so, Ben Crenshaw broke a putter in the Ryder Cup (a team event as it happened) ha had to continue using a 1 iron the putt with and duly lost a crucial game to Eamon Darcy
Sheikh
At the Start
I remember that I think, could it have been Curtis Strange ?
No, absolutely not.
In fairness, golf is a poor example of good rule setting. They have a mind numbingly exhaustive set of rules to cover every eventuality from which you invariably end up with unjust rulings defying any sort of common sense.
There probably should be a rule against stealing a fellow jockeys whip, and probably soon will be one, but until the stewards are given proper direction they have to use a bit of common sense and I think they've come out with the right result. I wouldn't have been hard on them had they gone the other way, it can't have been that easy, but I reckon they got it right.
There probably should be a rule against stealing a fellow jockeys whip, and probably soon will be one, but until the stewards are given proper direction they have to use a bit of common sense and I think they've come out with the right result. I wouldn't have been hard on them had they gone the other way, it can't have been that easy, but I reckon they got it right.
Sheikh
At the Start
Well I think that goes to prove what a shit game Golf is
I never did mind bending the rules if no one felt aggrieved. If I was on the second I wouldn't have felt hard done by.Now Roger Loughran I could have hung !
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
No you can't but that's allowed for in the rules, unlike golf which specifically states that you can't use another players clubs and only 14 can be carried. You can get a replacement of your own if you only carry 13 and one breaks mind.
He didn't steal it though, he was offered it, and took it, hence my hypothetical question about whether the stewards would have been so charitable ahd they been in the same ownership? Team tactics?
I don't think he was offered it ...
"I think the other guy (Devereux) was a bit gobsmacked when I took it at the top of the hill and once I gave the horse one or two smacks, it got him going again and he came back on the bridle and started to travel."
- McKeown quoted in Sporting Life.
Admittedly further down in the article which was added later they seem to have agreed the exchange, however that sounds like a bit of PR speak. Looking at the incident itself I don't think Devereux knew too much about what was going on. He certainly didn't hand the whip over.
"I think the other guy (Devereux) was a bit gobsmacked when I took it at the top of the hill and once I gave the horse one or two smacks, it got him going again and he came back on the bridle and started to travel."
- McKeown quoted in Sporting Life.
Admittedly further down in the article which was added later they seem to have agreed the exchange, however that sounds like a bit of PR speak. Looking at the incident itself I don't think Devereux knew too much about what was going on. He certainly didn't hand the whip over.
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Definately Crenshaw. (taken from the Telegraphs 20 greatest Ryder Cup moments)
"Singles 1987, Muirfield village, Eamon Darcy. During the round, Eamon's opponent gentleman Ben Crenshaw had an argument with his putter and broke the offending club on the sixth green. Not being allowed to replace it, Ben continued with a sand wedge, then a three iron and, at the final hole, rolled his putt from five into the cup with his three iron. Eamon had a putt of similar distance downhill from left to right. As it trickled along the lightening fast green, it just caught enough of the right side of the hole. Ben's wife was about to give birth in the hours ahead, Eamon nearly did at Muirfield Village's 18th green! It was Eamon' first Ryder Cup point in 10 tries and it earned him a pat on the back from none other than Jack Nicklaus. It surely can't be as long as 21 years ago. Sadly, it is. It was Europe's first win on American soil. I rather enjoyed Eamon's take on it afterwards when a journalist asked: "Did you think you would hole it? Eamon replied: "Yes, but if it missed, I wasn't sure I would hole the one back."
That should have been kicked out, if thats not taking the wrong course then what is, I predict everything on New Years Day to be cutting corners left right and centre, the stewards at Cheltenham today have been incompetent in the highest order, shame on them, perhaps they are lacking a fluorescent bib !!!!
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Spot on, Gal.
Ridiclious? I'd say quite the opposite. Russell walked the course and spotted a short cut he thought he could take and gain ground in doing so. 10 out 10 for both preparation and thinking about his race strategy (thinking being a trait we don't always associate with jockeys). He then approaches the stewards unilaterally to seek clarification about the legality of the move. No problem with that, I'd call it a sensible and professional demonstration of caution. Having satisfied himself of his plans legalty he then sandbags the information, before playing his hand in the race. That the other jocks carried on following the bushes as guidelines proves nothing. Russell for his part has been rewarded for his ingenuity and ability to think outside of the box. Fair play to him.
I'm sure the others will follow his lead, but is the sharp turn any sharper than some of the others like the Aintree fence, or even the canal turn at Aintree. There's plenty of sharp turns at racecourses all over the country afterall, Ludlow and Newton Abbott come to mind and they don't cause multiple pile ups. If the stewards deem it to be dangerous, then they'll have to move the marker post. The balls in their court so to speak, so I don't see why you should call Russell ridiclious for setting the officials and other jockeys a poser to mull over
I'm sure the others will follow his lead, but is the sharp turn any sharper than some of the others like the Aintree fence, or even the canal turn at Aintree. There's plenty of sharp turns at racecourses all over the country afterall, Ludlow and Newton Abbott come to mind and they don't cause multiple pile ups. If the stewards deem it to be dangerous, then they'll have to move the marker post. The balls in their court so to speak, so I don't see why you should call Russell ridiclious for setting the officials and other jockeys a poser to mull over
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Surely that's just the point, he didn't take the wrong course. He had to ride outside of the white marker board, and the decorative bushes are guidelines only, how you plot you're way round is up to you provided you observe the marker boards. I guess it migth even be something of a throw back to the old days of racing between steeples, or even combining aspects of show jumping where a rider might take a sharp turn recknoing they can gain time overall
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Warbs, it's the fact that the bushes do not mark the boundaries of the course that's diriculous.
What are they doing if not marking the boundaries of the course??????????????
What are they doing if not marking the boundaries of the course??????????????
Colin Phillips
At the Start
I didn't see any marker boards, there appeared to be three traffic cones indicating the boundary!
Nice to hear Rebecca Morgan's immediate response........."he's taken the wrong course!"
Nice to hear Rebecca Morgan's immediate response........."he's taken the wrong course!"
To be honest, I think it's awful, and if thats not the course then the bushes want removing. if you go outside the wing in a bumper or the wrong side of a fence or hurdle when its dolled off you're kicked out, but completely cut through the bushes and cut off a corner, and its okay, umm something don't seem right to me.
Problem is if a steward has told him its okay pre race, maybe other stewards want to kick him out, but this steward steps forward and says actually I told him its allowed, so then they have to let it stand or it makes the stewards look awful and Russell would have a case to appeal as he was told he could go there. Either way its a complete balls up by the stewards or the race track.
Problem is if a steward has told him its okay pre race, maybe other stewards want to kick him out, but this steward steps forward and says actually I told him its allowed, so then they have to let it stand or it makes the stewards look awful and Russell would have a case to appeal as he was told he could go there. Either way its a complete balls up by the stewards or the race track.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Unashamedly pinched from Alan Potts on TRF. Illuminating, to say the least:
"This is what it says on the BHA admin website:
The British Horseracing Authority has decided that for all races over the cross country course at Cheltenham the laurel bushes, whilst denoting the actual racing line, will not be deployed as markers to denote the correct course as referred to in Rule 152 (iii)(a). It therefore follows that if a horse goes the wrong side of a laurel bush and continues in the race, it will not be disqualified for taking the wrong course. However, at certain points on the course there will be "C" Markers which will be used to denote the correct course. Riders must always leave the appropriate Marker on their inside. Should a rider not pass a "C" Marker on the correct side the rider must turn back and ride the course correctly from such point or pull up. If the rider continues in the race the horse shall be disqualified as provided for in Rule 152 (iii)(a) and the rider suspended for not less than ten days.
These arrangements will be explained to all riders prior to riding in a Cross Country race. However all riders are strongly advised to walk the course before riding in such races and if they are in doubt as to the correct course they should contact the Clerk of the Course."
It seems to me that Davy Russell might have been the only one savvy enough to actually listen to the Stewards explanation, and actually apply it to his ride in the race, whilst the rest of the jockeys simply followed the laurel bushes like Pavlov's Dog.
It's a no-contest "Ride of the Season", if you ask me.
"This is what it says on the BHA admin website:
The British Horseracing Authority has decided that for all races over the cross country course at Cheltenham the laurel bushes, whilst denoting the actual racing line, will not be deployed as markers to denote the correct course as referred to in Rule 152 (iii)(a). It therefore follows that if a horse goes the wrong side of a laurel bush and continues in the race, it will not be disqualified for taking the wrong course. However, at certain points on the course there will be "C" Markers which will be used to denote the correct course. Riders must always leave the appropriate Marker on their inside. Should a rider not pass a "C" Marker on the correct side the rider must turn back and ride the course correctly from such point or pull up. If the rider continues in the race the horse shall be disqualified as provided for in Rule 152 (iii)(a) and the rider suspended for not less than ten days.
These arrangements will be explained to all riders prior to riding in a Cross Country race. However all riders are strongly advised to walk the course before riding in such races and if they are in doubt as to the correct course they should contact the Clerk of the Course."
It seems to me that Davy Russell might have been the only one savvy enough to actually listen to the Stewards explanation, and actually apply it to his ride in the race, whilst the rest of the jockeys simply followed the laurel bushes like Pavlov's Dog.
It's a no-contest "Ride of the Season", if you ask me.
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I tend to agree with most of both replies there.
I used the word "decorative" to describe the bushes I think that might be part of the answer. So far as I can establish they're guidelines to assist the jockesy many of whom were taking the wrong course when it was first introduced. They serve no other purpose. I tend therefore to agree with Flame, and personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of them selectively removed, and reckon it might actually add to the spectacle of the race, if it starts to place a premium on jockey tactics and becomes a free for all. Like I said, there's a bit of the old romantic side of steeple to steeple about it, which if the cross country course can come to embody some of this heritage and challenge jockeys to pilot their mounts round drawing on ingenuity and a bit of 'seat of their pants' riding, then I say why not?
Colin, there are white boards round the course that look like an old stoolball target. Mick Fitz knew immediately when it was suggested that he'd taken the wrong course. He pointed out that the rules state that you have to ride outside of this board and the slow motion shown afterwards clearly showed he'd done this. Fitz also went on to explain that the bushes are guidelines only, and that in his imo Russell was quite within the rules to cut the bend once he'd cleared the board on the outside. Luckily for him he didn't have FIA stewards to answer to!!!
Alice interviewed Russell straight after and Davy was confident even as the claxon sounded. He said he'd walked the course, spotted the short cut, sought out the opinion of the stewards declaring to them his intention to ride to this strategy and was told it was legal to do so. Not surprisingly, he kept this info to himself. Why should he share it? It's his improvisation and ingenuity that allowed him to spot the line, so its fair enough that he should benefit
I used the word "decorative" to describe the bushes I think that might be part of the answer. So far as I can establish they're guidelines to assist the jockesy many of whom were taking the wrong course when it was first introduced. They serve no other purpose. I tend therefore to agree with Flame, and personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of them selectively removed, and reckon it might actually add to the spectacle of the race, if it starts to place a premium on jockey tactics and becomes a free for all. Like I said, there's a bit of the old romantic side of steeple to steeple about it, which if the cross country course can come to embody some of this heritage and challenge jockeys to pilot their mounts round drawing on ingenuity and a bit of 'seat of their pants' riding, then I say why not?
Colin, there are white boards round the course that look like an old stoolball target. Mick Fitz knew immediately when it was suggested that he'd taken the wrong course. He pointed out that the rules state that you have to ride outside of this board and the slow motion shown afterwards clearly showed he'd done this. Fitz also went on to explain that the bushes are guidelines only, and that in his imo Russell was quite within the rules to cut the bend once he'd cleared the board on the outside. Luckily for him he didn't have FIA stewards to answer to!!!
Alice interviewed Russell straight after and Davy was confident even as the claxon sounded. He said he'd walked the course, spotted the short cut, sought out the opinion of the stewards declaring to them his intention to ride to this strategy and was told it was legal to do so. Not surprisingly, he kept this info to himself. Why should he share it? It's his improvisation and ingenuity that allowed him to spot the line, so its fair enough that he should benefit
Arial_Ortega
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 82
I agree he lost his whip through the horse making a jumping error. Absoloutly genious bit of initiative. What is the problem the best horse eventually won.
BlazingWalker
At the Start
personally I feel the best horse fell 2 out, but hey nevermind
Yeah,and I think he told Nina what he thought about it as he tried to trample her into the ground afterwards
