Cheltenham Going

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Why cannot they not water the day before (if need be) to ensure Good ground rather than Good To Soft ground.

If you have a fast ground horse for the Champion Hurdle you are basically screwed.

Watering is a tricky policy, but if they need to make it "safe" why not water to ensure safe ground the weekend before (rather than days in advance as they currently do) and then straight after each days racing?

I remember a couple of seasons back when Katchit won his Champion Hurdle, they had watered extensively prior to the Festival only for it to piddle down on the morning of the races.
 
They were watering while it was raining that year, Galileo.

Conditions round here for the past few days have been hard frosts and dry, cold, sunny days with a brisk breeze.
 
From the Racing Post:


WATERING will begin at Cheltenham by Tuesday at the latest after clerk of the course Simon Claisse decided that artificial irrigation was required in order to maintain what was on Saturday described as perfect good-to-soft ground.

Having been denied meaningful rain for a week and with that trend set to continue until at least next weekend, Cheltenham was on Saturday reported to be drying out to the extent that parts of the track could be described as good when Claisse assesses conditions on Sunday.

Claisse said: "We had a little drizzle this [Saturday] morning, but it hasn't even wet the road and the forecast is now saying that we are looking like having no rain in the next eight days.

"To maintain the good-to-soft ground we have now, we will have to water next week and, unless my forecast changes very significantly by Monday, we will probably start on Tuesday. If you started the festival today the ground would be perfect, so what I want is to maintain it as it is now.

"What we're likely to do is give all of it 8mm to 9mm over Tuesday and Wednesday. It will be a slow process, though, as we expect overnight temperatures of -6C tonight, -5C on Sunday and -4C on Monday, so it will be a late start to watering each day.

"Up until this morning, we were expecting light but steady rainfall next weekend, but that has now moved to beyond that point. The watering will keep it at good to soft up until the end of next week and then we'll take a view, based on the latest forecast, as to whether we need to go again."

Claisse - who describes the crosscountry track as good to soft, soft in places - added:

"Don't be surprised if by Sunday we have ‘good in places' on both the Old and New courses.

"We haven't had any rainfall since last weekend and we've had a strong easterly wind, so we have typical early-March drying conditions.

"I'd also ask people to remember that the ground was heavy when we had our press lunch in 2007, but 12 days later, on thefirst day of the festival, it was good to soft, and by the time the meeting ended we had lively good ground."

A Met Office spokesman said: "The whole week should be dry, and although there could be the odd spot of rain, it won't be measurable.

"Looking further ahead, Cheltenham could be one of the last places to get any rain."
 
Why cannot they not water the day before (if need be) to ensure Good ground rather than Good To Soft ground.

If you have a fast ground horse for the Champion Hurdle you are basically screwed.

Watering is a tricky policy, but if they need to make it "safe" why not water to ensure safe ground the weekend before (rather than days in advance as they currently do) and then straight after each days racing?
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I think the answer is that dumping a lot of water on to the course in a short space of time is likely to produce false ground and patchy going. They need to water little and often for safety and consistency.
 
The question is whether you want "safe" or genuinely neutral (ie the good side of good to soft) ground for the Festival. I'm firmly in the latter camp as it allows the track to dry naturally without producing overly fast ground. The idea that the water put on the track ten days before the Festival is somehow still there on the Tuesday is daft if you think about it that way. It would be unwise to allow the ground to get firm and then to artificially irrigate it, whereas maintaining the conditions before the natural moisture disappears is much more sensible. Remember, the ground staff at Cheltenham, particularly head groundsman Tony Howland, are genuine experts on turf management, not graduates of the Kirkland Tellwright school of racecourse maintenance!
 
Muttley said:
I think the answer is that dumping a lot of water on to the course in a short space of time is likely to produce false ground and patchy going. They need to water little and often for safety and consistency.
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How is it most other courses can manage it?
 
Galileo said:
How is it most other courses can manage it?
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Do they? As far as I'm aware, most tracks simply f*** watering up, whereas Cheltenham gets very few complaints from trainers in that regard. Remember that you're dealing with grass growth as well through watering and Cheltenham need moisture to promote grass growth after putting plenty of fertiliser down and aerating the turf.
 
rorydelargy said:
Do they? As far as I'm aware, most tracks simply f*** watering up, whereas Cheltenham gets very few complaints from trainers in that regard. Remember that you're dealing with grass growth as well through watering and Cheltenham need moisture to promote grass growth after putting plenty of fertiliser down and aerating the turf.
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With temperatures of -5,-6,-7 predicted there will be very little grass growth regardless of water being put down. With such temperatures, and water being put on it that cannot be good for the ground imo.

I can only speak for the Irish tracks, but Leopardstown and particularly Punchestown (during their festivals) water straight after racing without any problems. I do not see why Cheltenham cannot wait to Friday/Saturday - water then if they feel the need to and then do it straight after racing on each day.

At this stage they are likely to water Tuesday and then the weekend and then during the week itself. If they can allow the ground to be good on the Friday I cannot see why they cannot allow the ground to be good on the Tuesday - if the weather allows it.
 
It really does my nut in that they're watering at all. Watering should only be allowed for the sake of promoting a good covering of grass and keeping any jar out of the ground. To produce artificial going is just plain wrong.
 
Gal, the primary reason for ensuring Good-To-Soft on the Tuesday, is too ensure that the ground isn't riding Good-To-Firm by the Friday, which has been the case on a few occassions since the drainage was changed. If they started the meeting on Good ground, however, there is every chance that it would quicken right-up over the course of the week, to the detriment of the vast majority of horses, and rendering the form-book next to useless.

They have almost certainly been helped by the wet winters we have had, but the Cheltenham ground staff seem to be getting the hang of things, in terms of providing proper, equitable jumping ground (a la rory's decription) over the last couple of years. Despite being quite a severe critic of Claisse over the years, I'm inclined to give him and his staff the benefit of the doubt that the ground they provide next week, is as fair as possible to everyone - across the four days.

And if they f**k it up so royally that Go Native fails to act on it, that will be a perfectly acceptable outcome too. :D
 
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How is it most other courses can manage it?
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Firstly, I'd agree with Rory's reply and secondly, it depends on the soil and topography of the course. As for not watering at all, DO, do you want to see the cream of Britain and Ireland's jump horses breaking down left right and centre?
 
I take the point about not wanting Gd/fm by Friday but if horses are breaking down on good ground with a good covering of grass than they're not the
cream of Britain and Ireland's jump horses
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There only needs to be "heavy" watering if your obsessed with changing the ground and not just maintaining it in a good safe condition which is what they do to it every Tuesday. Katchit's Champion Hurdle was a disaster with heavy rain in the build up to the rain after too much watering in the lead up to the race.

They are planning on watering tomorrow, on ground that is going below -2,-3,-4,-5 each night next week and on grass that has had poor growth due to the temperatures. This all a week away (over in fact) from the racing actually starting so plenty of time for the forecast to change and rain to arrive. And we wonder why racecourse ground is getting so messed up? Common sense tells us when the ground is that cold it should not (nor cannot) deal with rain or watering.
 
By Racing Post staff 1:49PM 8 MAR 2010
SIMON CLAISSE, Cheltenham's clerk of the course and director of racing, has been forced to delay watering on Monday, due to temperatures reaching as low as -8C overnight.

Claisse said: "We were going to start watering today but it was -8C last night, so we have not started yet. It is a lovely day here at the moment, blue sky, quite cool but sunny.

"As I gave it yesterday, the ground remains good to soft, good in places. We expect to get on and start watering by early afternoon but I have not yet changed my going update on the Weatherbys website to 'watering', because at this moment we are not yet."
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I am no grassland management expert - but common sense tells me watering on ground with those temperatures at night is not smart.
 
Desert Orchid said:
It really does my nut in that they're watering at all. Watering should only be allowed for the sake of promoting a good covering of grass and keeping any jar out of the ground. To produce artificial going is just plain wrong.
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I doubt they are intending to produce artificial going. If they do it would be very poor. They will surely strive to maintain the going just on the soft side of good (which is considered 'ideal' jumping ground and what they are directed to achieve).
 
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Weather...

My reading of the charts is that we can expect cold nights with frost right through this week which will presumably keep soil temperatures low.

It looks settled and gradually warmer through next week with 15c possible on Gold Cup day.
 
Galileo said:
I am no grassland management expert - but common sense tells me watering on ground with those temperatures at night is not smart.
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The ground around here was still frozen solid at 9.30 am. It had eased a little by 11.00 am but was still very firm.

We have had almost a week of very hard frosts with bright, sunny days. There is some warmth in the sun, but there is a brisk wind coming from the NE, which is bitingly cold at present.

Since noon today the ground eased slightly again, with the top 1/4 inch softening up, but once the sun starts dropping, so do the temperatures.

Watering on top of that must be asking for trouble.
 
"The cold water we are putting on does not help grass growth. We would love to be in a situation whereby we could end up starting the meeting on perfect jumping ground without having to intervene at all.
"The water that is going on is only two or three degrees. At the moment it is probably lowering the soil temperature. It might even check grass growth (rather) than encourage it."
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There is little or no grass growth at the moment in most of the South West (or probably anywhere else for that matter). You don't fertilize during cold spells and you certainly don't fertilize when there's a frost as you'll simply burn off what's there.

Watering during the night when it's freezing could damage the grass root but, again, watering during the day will be almost a waste of time because of the steady winds we're experiencing, so Cheltenham's ground staff really do have a major problem on their hands and I don't envy them at all.

This year we are having an unbelievably late, cold spring and while we are happy here that it's so dry from the point of view of getting a whole lot of muck spread on the arable ground, it's getting late now for putting the fert on for silaging/haylage/hay making.
 
No frost overnight in Cheltenham. Another dry and very sunny day here with a strongish breeze.
Not as cold as yesteday so should be no problem watering during the day.
 
There was a light frost on Tuesday outside the town, but nothing since. Cloudy and sunny spells, with a strong, dry, very cold wind from NE last 3 days.

Today much milder with some short, light showers. Frost has come out of ground and there is a bit of dig in it, but I wouldn't say soft.

Rain is only forecast for today (1mm max, apparently), so with the breeze persisting, they may well need to water to keep the good to soft ground for Tuesday.
 
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