Cocozza

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SlimChance

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What a fascinating horse:

Has only 8 lifetime runs

Was sent off 4/7 fav first time out when trained by John Oxx in Ireland and beat Manieree by 3 1/2 lengths (now rated 106) and My Quest For Peace (now rated 111) by 4 lengths

Was backed from 10/3 into 6/4 against the 114 rated Dunboyne Express (now named Dan Excel and rated 108 in Hong Kong) in the 2011 Guineas trial at Leopardstown. He was withdrawn after refusing to be loaded in the stalls.

After moving to Marco Botti he was sent off 14/1 in the Lincoln off a mark of 99 when well beaten.

His last run was atrocious when beaten 15 lengths by listed quality horses over a mile at Nottingham when a 125/1 shot.

He's being tilted at windmills again tomorrow in a Group 3 at Newmarket over 7f where he's currently 150/1. If he is run over again as expected will the handicapper drop him further from his mark of 90? At what stage do they run him in a handicap again given he's clearly well in on his 2yo form? Or are the new owners (changed hands before his last run) just running him in these races for the day out?
 
Looks like one to give a wide berth to until showing some glimmer of enthusiasm.

I might be more fascinated if he was trained by J Osborne...
 
How bad is the trainer? Unless the horse has fallen to pieces, which is entirely possible, there has to be a race in him.
 
None of my business, likes, but isn't this perhaps a case of a 2yo who failed to train on? Maybe the family has a litany of early-maturing cowards in it's history?*


*
This is a measure of my boredom.
 
Grasshopper said:
None of my business, likes, but isn't this perhaps a case of a 2yo who failed to train on? Maybe the family has a litany of early-maturing cowards in it's history?*


*
This is a measure of my boredom.
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If it were with a stroke trainer it would be in every notebook in the country.
 
If the trainer is Ken Clutterbuck he pulled off a huge gamble with a horse called Stoneacre Gareth in 2011. The horse was rated 45 after winning as a 2yo off 73.

Recently, I understand, Clutterbuck's son received a ban of 30 months in relation to the Eddie Ahern, Neil Clement case. The horse in question was Stoneacre Gareth.

It may well be worth watching Cocozza as they may well have a race lined up for him at Kempton, where Stoneacre Gareth landed the gamble.

Furthermore, Clutterbuck runs a pub in Exning with Julia Feilden's sister, so I would imagine they will have some idea of how much ability Cocozza retains.
 
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MLMRob said:
If the trainer is Ken Clutterbuck he pulled off a huge gamble with a horse called Stoneacre Gareth in 2011. The horse was rated 45 after winning as a 2yo off 73.

Recently, I understand, Clutterbuck's son received a ban of 30 months in relation to the Eddie Ahern, Neil Clement case. The horse in question was Stoneacre Gareth.

It may well be worth watching Cocozza as they may well have a race lined up for him a Kempton, where Stoneacre Gareth landed the gamble.
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Thank you! That is exactly what I was looking to know.
 
Horse will be down to 70 and win IMO, Stoneacre Gareth coup was some going but even he wouldn't go so far as to attempt a 0-65 job.
 
Eased down to finish 15 lengths off secnod last today. I'd expect a coiple of pounds drop to 88 for that.

.
 
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Great fun this thread.
I was at The Curragh when this fellow came from the clouds at 33 or 50/1 to be just touched off on his debut; at Mallow ( Cork to strangers!) when holding on from stable mate Maniree on very fast ground and again as a 3yo when 2nd in Cork in a Rated Race.
Horse has attitude problems for sure.
For my sins a syndicate I in took over Espartano in 2008 as a 4 yo with Tom Hogan.
Owned at 2 by Harry Findlay and friends he won his first 2 races at Windsor before unplaced fav in Windsor Palace Stks. Came over for The Railway Stks at The Curragh only to run into Holy Roman Emperor and Excellent Art.
By the time we took him over he was 51 rated, sore and sorry but sweetened up by Tom.
2214404p15 went his form and rating went to 70.
His 2 wins were apprentice races at Leopardstown with Conor Farrell and Paul Townsend riding as only they can .
Blinkers, no stick, passing tiring horses was his job and boy what fun we had !
The following season when finally looking like a racehorse he refused to start on 3 or 4 occasions! Hamlet cigar times !
Hopefully Cocozza will drop enough for an Apprentice hands and heels race, Oisin Murphy riding and we might be in business!
 
edgt said:
Great fun this thread.

Hopefully Cocozza will drop enough for an Apprentice hands and heels race, Oisin Murphy riding and we might be in business!
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Great story. A horse like Cocozza who many believed was a Group horse cannot fail to win a race in the 80s. MLMRob post makes me certain I'm right. I'm going to follow it off a cliff.
 
SlimChance said:
Was backed from 10/3 into 6/4 against the 114 rated Dunboyne Express (now named Dan Excel and rated 108 in Hong Kong) in the 2011 Guineas trial at Leopardstown. He was withdrawn after refusing to be loaded in the stalls.
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He sat down in the stalls and I think the back injury he picked up that day has haunted him ever since. A shadow of his former self after that and just not finishing out races. The owners were talking about the Irish Guineas for him.
 
Cantoris said:
He sat down in the stalls and I think the back injury he picked up that day has haunted him ever since. A shadow of his former self after that and just not finishing out races. The owners were talking about the Irish Guineas for him.
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Cheers... A handicap off 77 though..,
 
SlimChance said:
Cheers... A handicap off 77 though..,
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A handicap off 55 might not be possible if he is still feeling effects of injury. Old form is worthless if it was at a time when he was in the full of his health and clearly isn't now or has gone backwards. At some point he may win again, but whose to know what point that is. Your whole reasoning is around his 2yo form and clearly there was a physical issue which resulted in his decline. Dr. Newland might like to have a go!!
 
Cantoris said:
A handicap off 55 might not be possible if he is still feeling effects of injury. Old form is worthless if it was at a time when he was in the full of his health and clearly isn't now or has gone backwards. At some point he may win again, but whose to know what point that is. Your whole reasoning is around his 2yo form and clearly there was a physical issue which resulted in his decline. Dr. Newland might like to have a go!!
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I take all your points on board but he remains a fascinating creature.
 
Espartano had back issues, bleeding issues (hence pulled up at Ballinrobe over 8f) and mental burn out but would run with good horses on a loose rein and pass tiring horses with relish once the way was clear.
His ongoing physio etc was nearly as much as his training fees however.
 
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