Daily Mail

clivex said:
EC. Is it fair to say that political beliefs are passed down generations?

Have a look at many recent leaders on both sides and you will find that is precisely the case (Blair was an exception and I think maybe Heath too).
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but its pure guesswork Clive...there is no substance to any of it..its a total no story that has made those involved in writing it and being encouraged to write it.. look very dim indeed
 
clivex said:
Well the fact you call them "tory toffs" pretty well sinks your point doesnt it?

So if Camerons father was a nazi sympathiser you would suggest that any mention of that would be "in the gutter"?
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It was clearly shorthand for the 'Bullingdon Club' set, and how they are perceived by your favourite leftie rags.

Stop being a tit.

:cool:
 
EC1 said:
but its pure guesswork Clive...there is no substance to any of it..its a total no story that has made those involved in writing it and being encouraged to write it.. look very dim indeed
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Not necessarily given that ed has stated how strong his fathers influence was (or at least I'm pretty sure he has)

It's a different relationship to many leaders with their parents in so far as his father was so strongly political
 
No. Furthermore, there are several people more stupid than Rod Liddle.

Why is it so hard to understand you can dislike aspects of how a society is structured but not hate a country? I dislike the monarchy - does that mean I hate Britain? Of course not. It is typical Daily Mail nonsense, written by and for utter morons.
 
clivex said:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-li...d-of-britain-sprung-from-his-marxist-beliefs/

Fair or not?
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Milliband's father could have been Santa or The Tooth Fairy - they have about as much relevance to Ed's political outlook.

It doesn't matter that Ralph Milliband was a frothing Marxist. Ed himself is a soft-left social-liberal, and dragging his father into matters does not change that fact. This renders the Mail story irrelevant at best, and malicious at worst.

It should never have been run because it has f*ck-all to do with the 'news'. Unless you think Ed is going to turn into Pol Pot if he gets elected......and only the dullest of Mail-gobbling fuds, would consider that to be a possibility.
 
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He is spot on. A communist(or Marxist whatever that is) society is not "certain aspects". Not by a long way. It is everything top to bottom.

I think we have seen that enough times haven't we?

It's a bit more than doing away with the monarchy
 
Some would say that price controls and land grabs as well as (I think most relevantly)!virtually no reference to enterprise (something gb for instance would always refernce strongly) in his speech as being a bit more than soft left.

I would say that's a bit harsh myself but don't be surprised if we have gulags, empty tractor factories, mass starvation, massive ed posters and new calendars in 2017
 
Bar the Bull said:
Sartre was a Marxist. He was pretty keen on freedom of exprssion. Are you too stubborn to see that is possible or too stupid?
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Are you too stupid to know that there were countless African leaders who hoarded millions and flew around in gold plated private jets that also called themselves Marxists

Or can name a Marxist state that had a free press, complete freedom of expression, no political prisoners and genuine free enterprise?

Ralph milliband apparently wrote a book claiming that socialism must not be achieved by democratic means. Well that's one pretty significant freedom done for isn't it?
 
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You say apparently. Why don't you find the quote or direct us towards that section of the book you are referring to?
 
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Read it somewhere but will drop that. He also slated communisms freedoms as opposed to capitalism but point is that Marxist societies have always mutated into the very states that suppress freedoms.

Even without the freedom issue, economically it is and always has been a disaster
 
Clive

it doesn't really matter if Ralph was Savile's best mate..or a mass murderer...its got bugger all to do with Ed..they are two different people..it doesn't matter what his Dad did or believed..so you can go on all night about his Dad..but it doesn't alter anything

this is without doubt one of the saddest most ignorant pieces of journalism i've seen for a while..its of Jeremy Kyle audience mentality
 
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Sartre was a writer . He can call himself whatever he likes .

Hen was not exactly going to be responsible for running (ruining) the economy was he?
 
Ec

See my point above. Very clear. Many leaders cite their upbringing and parents beliefs as their biggest influence. Many leaders follow those pretty well to the letter too

Thatcher for one. Brown another
 
And I'm still waiting to hear of the Marxist society with true freedom of expression

You can "think" all you like and waffle away but when it came to implementation the results were always the same .

Coincidence? I think not
 
Indeed. Sartre was not just a writer - it shows an enormous misunderstanding of him to say that. He was as influential as anyone in 20th century France, after de Gaulle and Mitterand.
 
I never doubted that, Clive. But it wasn't what you said. Yeah big kudos to the clever d1ck who spotted communism hasn't worked. But your original point was very diffrent, "But not unreasonable to point out that as a marxist he would certainly have hated the freedom of expression, beliefs and enterprise. He probably would have hated our society and would have been wishing for an east german type state"

Which was complete bollox.
 
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At no time has France had a government that has even dared call itself Marxist . It had a reasonably strong left wing party a few years back but no more than le pens mob
 
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