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Do Pro Gamblers Exist?

walsworth

Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,256
Location
North Herts
In the modern era does anyone really make a living from gambling? I can just about break even over the long term but it’s hard work.

I watch Channel 64 on Freeview quite often and they have documentaries that search for Bigfoot and other Cryptids. Do you think they should make a search for Pro Gamblers?
 
Professional punters definitely still exist - enough of the things discussed here (like about data modellers) ought to make that clear tbh.

It's hard work, getting on with the books at a value price is tough (but not impossible - a friend of mine participated in an organised gamble when a horse went from 28/1 to 11/2 next Show the other day) and there isn't the liquidity in the exchanges there once was, but there are still professional (primary source of annual income) and semi-professional (supplementing a main income) punters around.
 
I don't think semi pros are that rare
💯% agree - I know several and possibly (depending on your exact definition) fit the description myself, though I'm superstitious and prefer to just describe myself as a "punter."

At 62, I haven't got the bottle for betting the way I used to anymore (what's the use in copping the lot if I had a cardiac arrest in the final furlong? 😂) , I like to stay in my comfort zone nowadays and if I ever have what I'd consider another big win in my life it will be because I copped with a multiple, with my single bet wins funding the multiples and keeping my head above water the rest of the time.
 
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As for pros , depends what you call making a 'living', the median avg uk salary is about £33k before you are robbed by the HMRC

If you are pulling in less than that as a 'pro' then I think you are somewhat stretching the definition of a 'pro'
 
‘Professional punter’ is basically meaningless these days. Every one of the bastards in the middle tier has four or five income streams. If I’d done my brains when I was at it, I’d have ended up on the streets. The ones at the top have so much cash they don’t even want their name in a phone directory.

I never considered myself a ‘professional punter’. I was a punter—and the rent being paid depended on me being good at it. Put any of the social media morons out on the street with €5k and tell them they need to survive, and you'd return to find them in a scene out of Gaza. The game now is all talk, all bravado: look at my ROI, look at my expected value. None of it matters except how many notes you’ve folded in your pocket. No other metric is worth a damn.
 
‘Professional punter’ is basically meaningless these days. Every one of the bastards in the middle tier has four or five income streams. If I’d done my brains when I was at it, I’d have ended up on the streets. The ones at the top have so much cash they don’t even want their name in a phone directory.

I never considered myself a ‘professional punter’. I was a punter—and the rent being paid depended on me being good at it. Put any of the social media morons out on the street with €5k and tell them they need to survive, and you'd return to find them in a scene out of Gaza. The game now is all talk, all bravado: look at my ROI, look at my expected value. None of it matters except how many notes you’ve folded in your pocket. No other metric is worth a damn.
💯% agree with this because this is real world speak, not social media fantasy bragging.

And "bragging" is the operative word here.

If some quiet reclusive individual can make betting their primary source of income, even if it's less than the median income pawras not unreasonably draws comparison with, if they want to privately think of themselves as a "pro punter," then why not, it might make them feel more personal self esteem and it impacts on literally no one.

But the instant an individual starts publicly referring to themselves as a "pro punter," they are setting themselves up as superior to other punters and are open to legitimate scrutiny.

Far too many punters seem to prioritise others knowing they win over the actual winning.

For me it's a massive character failing - and I should know, I've got every character failing in the book and quite a few you won't find in any book. 😂

If you can win, just keep your edges to yourself and quietly win ffs - don't feel the need to prove yourself to every random fecker you encounter on the web.

As Slim says, the ones who win most you know least about - they're not in the phone book.

The one who might (I don't care enough to research it) be the biggest on the planet once phoned me at 2am in the morning 20-odd years ago.

He seemed a regular guy, actually, I liked him, but most people wouldn't recognise his name.

I used to know another one who was pretty major too - he also maintained a low profile.

The more they know the less they say, whereas the more they pretend (for various reasons) they know the more they say.
 
At the end of the day, ‘professional punters’ add nothing to society. It’s not something to boast about. Do it, get the cash, and wake up every day thankful you’re not in the rat race—like every poor soul riding the bus to a job they hate, answering to a boss who gives them chest pains at night. That’s why you do it. Not for the bravado.
 
In the modern era does anyone really make a living from gambling?
I've never really understood the term myself, which probably shows my low level of understanding into it. I bet as a hobby. I wouldn't want it any other way.

I'm not sure the definition of a 'professional gambler' is exclusively linked to always securing a profit either. Moreover, if it is, then surely incurring a loss must also be accepted as par for the course?

Does losing make you an unprofessional gambler?
 
You need to be a ruthless price hunter and know how your selections typically behave in the market, look at your last 100 bets say & calculate what your return would be with 10% lower odds & 10% higher odds, should be quite illuminating
 
I've never really understood the term myself, which probably shows my low level of understanding into it. I bet as a hobby. I wouldn't want it any other way.

I'm not sure the definition of a 'professional gambler' is exclusively linked to always securing a profit either. Moreover, if it is, then surely incurring a loss must also be accepted as par for the course?

Does losing make you an unprofessional gambler?
Everyone, even pro punters unless they just arb, have numerous losing races or even losing periods - by "win" people generally mean win in the long-term, ie their overall p/l is in the green (profit).
 
Say you avg 1 bet per day and you want to make that median avg wage of £33k a year from betting instead of more conventional means, how much do you need to stake each time?
If your roi is 10% the stake you require at level stakes is £904, if your roi is 20% it's £452. That's not taking into account your strike rate and subsequent losing runs you'd have to endure. Even favs that win on avg 32% of the time can have losing runs of 17 on the trot. If you are more the lower strike bigger odds player, a 20% strike rate can give you a losing run of up to 30.
 
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Say you avg 1 bet per day and you want to make that median avg wage of £33k a year from betting instead of more conventional means, how much do you need to stake each time?
If your roi is 10% the stake you require at level stakes is £904, if your roi is 20% it's £452. That's not taking into account your strike rate and subsequent losing runs you'd have to endure. Even favs that win on avg 32% of the time can have losing runs of 17 on the trot. If you are more the lower strike bigger odds player, a 20% strike rate can give you a losing run of up to 30.

365 bets is about 3,650 too few if you want to make £30k.
 
I'm not gonna lie - when I first opened an account with them (many years ago now) I didn't appreciate the value of their big max payouts on multiples.

I was still too singles driven.

Back then, I was told they were better than other books inasmuch as they'd tolerate you until you were £8,000 up with them unless you took the piss from Day One - say just betting Hunters' Chase ricks or some other niche market.

The advice seemed sound - I managed the account with a degree of care (a few recreational bets) and was more or less £8,000 up to the penny when I got the "Dear Ian" review email.

They were better than some - Paddy Power restricted me at just £600 up and BetBright were the most hilarious of all - restricted to SP only after one (losing) bet - a 14/1 shot that got beat a neck having started at 4/1.

But none of this is clever - there are so many punters who have similar stories to tell.

Getting that median income return pawras talks about is a job in itself in that environment.

Nowadays I have accounts I purposely run at a loss (funded by grinding out profits from the machine mostly) to keep alive the hope of that big multiple cop which actually makes getting closed down worth it.
 
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Two of us, in partnership, spent a few months loosening up a Bet365 account—trying to spin up the balance by betting like maniacs. Football Asian handicaps were my poison. How wrong could you be by betting into a 103% overround. I think one day I had a grand on a Russian Premier League game.

By the time Cheltenham came around, we could bet to win £15k on a single there without referral. He ploughed the balance into overnights and each-way Lucky 15s. We won on the day, and there was only one question to ask my partner:
“Am I OK to put the f$%^ing lot in play tomorrow?”

We got the lot on the Thursday when we had one bullet left—Missed Approach in the Kim Muir to click the run-ups. We were the only punters in Ireland cheering him to see off Mall Dini. I don’t remember exactly how much we won, but it would’ve covered a year’s wages.

That’s only seven years ago, but it feels like a lifetime.
 
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Two of us, in partnership, spent a few months loosening up a Bet365 account—trying to spin up the balance by betting like maniacs. Football Asian handicaps were my poison. How wrong could you be by betting into a 103% overround. I think one day I had a grand on a Russian Premier League game.

By the time Cheltenham came around, we could bet to win £15k on a single there without referral. He ploughed the balance into overnights and each-way Lucky 15s. We won on the day, and there was only one question to ask my partner:
“Am I OK to put the f$%^ing lot in play tomorrow?”

We got the lot on the Thursday when we had one bullet left—Missed Approach in the Kim Muir to click the run-ups. We were the only punters in Ireland cheering him to see off Mall Dini. I don’t remember exactly how much we won, but it would’ve covered a year’s wages.

That’s only seven years ago, but it feels like a lifetime.
Love it.^
 
I still play on horses because it's all I've done for decades but stock market is so much easier. far more profitable. Same as horses be selective but you don't lose all your stake.
 
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