Energy supppliers

[Desert Orchid]

What on earth are they up to...

I'm wondering if the UK has the most villainous energy suppliers in the world, with all these entirely unjustified - regardless of the sh1t they tell you on TV - rises.

Anyway, using a mixture of comparison websites (including Which's and talking to their people on the phone) I decided to stay with EDF when I last considered switching over a year ago, getting a 'Fix for 2012' tariff, which kicked in just before their then-imminent big rise and fixing me on my existing tariff until 31 December this year. Even the Which? people were marvelling at how lucky I'd been to get that deal as there was nothing on their computers to get near it.

Having retired in the summmer after living in a flat away from home Monday-Friday for the previous 18 months, I was also in a position to keep an eye on the energy use in the house (where we like to be able to be comfortable without resorting to wearing pullovers, jumpers, fleeces, etc), I was nevertheless very pleasantly surprised when my 6-monthly statement arrived the other week informing me that we were £671 in credit for the year. By the way, that's with the heating on 24/7 pretty much from September to March. The company were proposing to reduce my monthly payments by £110.

Anyway, I got on to Switch with Which? and they seem to be suggesting a small supplier can save me another £300+ per annum (based on current payments) so I phoned my lot to ask them what's the best they can do for me to stop me looking elsewhere. Nothing, was the reply. My deal comes to an end on 31 December and then I'm straight on to the variable tariff. No deals. Having missed the November 2011 hike (I'm not sure if there has beeen another in the meantime) and with the 10.8% megahike on the horizon, I'm anxious to avoid what would probably be at least a 17% rise in tariffs. Given my annual energy outlay exceeds £3000, you'd think they'd want to keep me. It seems not.

So I have 8 weeks to find a new supplier.

 

[Tanlic]

It's all about buying and selling if they pay X from the pool they have to charge you Y nothing to do with wanting to keep you or not. Just the economics of it all. Some companies can only guarantee prices for 2 or 3 months because that's what they bought in the pool...it's not to say they will crucify you at the end of the period as it's not in their long term interest but they are governed by the market and if they lose out so do you. It's not a conspiracy to rob you it's just the way the market works,
At the end of the day the only difference to you is the name at the top of the bill and the price at the bottom so change if it saves you a pound and the longer the guaranteed price the better. No big deal and nothing complicated about it.

 

[Desert Orchid]

But they're making obscene profits.

 

[simmo]

it's not to say they will crucify you at the end of the period as it's not in their long term interest but they are governed by the market and if they lose out so do you. It's not a conspiracy to rob you it's just the way the market works,

So is Russia to blame then for the price of electricity rising by 600% in the last 20 years?

 

[moehat]

Haven't Northern Ireland reduced their energy blls recently? What concerns me, apart from the fact that I can't afford these huge increases is that we're totally dependant on other countries for our energy; isn't this a security concern. Also wholesale prices haven't actually gone up this year; they're putting the price up to cover any price increases that will happen. Gotta keep the shareholders happy.

 

[Tanlic]

As long as the production is linked to such commodities as coal oil and gas which become scarcer by the day prices are bound to rise. These external variables have a massive say on what you will pay now and in the future. It's not a product you can store.
The most important thing for consumers is they change as often as possible no matter how little the savings because if they don't competition will die.
Half the problem is people get it into their heads one company is better than the other and stick to what they know which of course is complete garbage.
Looking back to when they privatised gas and OFGAS froze British Gas to ensure they were unable to compete until they had lost 60% of the market it would make you shudder to think how many people kept paying British Gas prices. Stubborn as mules and totally unaware of how the whole thing worked you could have run over them with a Transco van and they still would have got it. Electricty did hit a 27 month low back in July but it's a funny old game and you never know what's round the corner.

I was heavily involved in the market before and after it opened up to competition and we were offering 3 year contracts at a fixed price back then and saving people fortunes. That's when comparatively people were paying through the nose to people like Scottish Power and someone like Manweb could knock 25% off without batting an eyelid.

It is less competitive now and more and more people are thinking it's not worth the hassle to change which the suppliers wont complain about. The more people out there like Desert Orchid who go to the trouble of scouting around and are willing to change the better,

SIMMO... The Russian did force the price of nuclear bombs up not sure about Electricity )

 

[simmo]

As long as the production is linked to such commodities as coal, oil and gas which become scarcer by the day prices are bound to rise.

Coal, oil and gas have not risen in price by 600% in the last 20 years. Why has electricity risen by that much?

Crude oil - up 266% since 1990.

Coal prices have risen by 500% in the same period - but it is being used less and less by electricity manufacturers as evidenced by the recent spate of redundancies in UK coal mining due to lack of demand. You can add to that the fact that UK imports of coal have halved in the past 6 years.

Natural Gas has risen by 200% in Europe in that timescale.

Prior to deregulation the CEBG turned a profit of £192m. The combined electricity companies profits last year was £3.5bn. A rise of 1723%.

And looking at the figures above - it's not hard to see where the profits are coming from.

Shower of f*cking thieves. And we all just turn round, drop the strides and say "yes please, I'd like f*cked in the ass". Switching supplier to save £60 a year or whatever is the equivalent of trying to sneak a bit of lube between your cheeks without them noticing.

 

[Tanlic]

Sorry mate but you really aren't looking at the big picture. Profits are vital to ensuring a stable and secure supply of electricity and with the likes of geothermal electricity production not far away these companies have to be financially sound to keep up with the game. What you have to pay goes far beyond the end of your street all the way to places like Iraq where the demand getting bigger everyday as the country develops which affects worldwide prices. The demand at home is also growing and new plants are needed and who will pay for them? You in the end your supplier in between unless they don't have the finanaces to ride a huge unexpected increases and like Calafornia's two main suppliers back in 2001 ended up hamstrung. If suppliers aren't in a strong position we could end up like Greece where none of them survived the crash and the whole lot went belly up. Half the consumers in the UK haven't bothered their ar$es changing and are paying top dollar and that have gone along way to companies making large profits. I doubt if they work out their projective profit on no one moving they surely work them out with the vast majority moving. If people don't get the finger out the who's to blame

 

[Desert Orchid]

But the profits are still obscene.

No one begrudges companies making a profit. The elements you mention [Tanlic] can maybe be factored into prices to an extent but there's still obscene profits being made, of which I'd be pretty certain a huge percentage is being syphoned off for the shareholders.

 

[simmo]

Profits are vital to ensuring a stable and secure supply of electricity

No one is saying they shouldn't make a tidy profit. But their profits are obscene. They are receiving outrageous grants to develop wind farms that don't pay or produce as much electricity as first thought.

Why? Because left to their own devices they wouldn't bother - cause they are not terribly interested in the long term except inasmuch as how it affects the short term.

If they were pumping those profits back into future proofing the industry you might have a point. As it is you just sound like an apologist arguing against a point because it's what you have been indoctrinated to do.

 

[simmo]

PS - If they were acting as your "big picture" suggests - their profits wouldn't be as large.

Which is why they're not. They are far too busy f*cking us in the ass to genuinely look at the "big picture".

 

[Tanlic]

Geesus have you got me wrong mate. I was every electricity companies biggest enemy when the market opened up OFFER thought the sun shone out my ass.....I moved millions of pounds worth of commercial supply from almost every major company in the UK. Indoctrinated my a$$

PS Don't forget to pay your bill it's overdue

 

[simmo]

Geesus have you got me wrong mate. I was every electricity companies biggest enemy when the market opened up OFFER thought the sun shone out my ass.....I moved millions of pounds worth of commercial supply from almost every major company in the UK. Indoctrinated my a$$

PS Don't forget to pay your bill it's overdue

If your thoughts are what is considered their "biggest enemy", then that pretty much explains our current position.

 

[moehat]

I don't want to change my supplier every five minutes; I'm sick of having to switch everything [house/car insurance etc] all the time to get 'the best deal'. I'd like someone to give me 'the best deal' for remaining loyal to them. What concerns me is that the great British public have become so used to these increases they just accept them. I'm not going to switch, but I'm going to carry on complaining each time it happens [moehat; aka Mrs Angry of Derby]....