Exchanges versus Bookmakers

betsmate

betsmate

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Dec 7, 2004
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For the first time in a long time I didn't use Betfair once during Cheltenham. I made sure that I took advantage of a few of the loss-leader offers from the firms and generally just bet with whoever was the longest price. Strangely I often didn't check whether Betfair were an even longer price.

Is it just me or has there been a bit of a shift recently? Have the firms realised that they need to put their money where their mouth is to fend off the blue tide?

Betfair certainly didn't seem to be flexing their marketing muscles as strongly as in the past?

Just to keep my eye in I've had a few exchange bets tonight!
 
I'm normally 90% Betfair but during the Festival I was 60% Bookies. The offers, the extra places (5 places in a 12 runner conditions race is unreal) the money back if your horse is second etc etc are just too good to pass up on. And I note today that Betvictor have already gone NRFB for 2014. Considering how much money I lost last week on NR's that is huge for me.
 
When you can get e/w Lucky 15s with treble the odds one winner on all bold type selections on Oddschecker you wish Cheltenham was every week. Betfair isn't worth a bollocks to get an edge compared to bookmakers.
 
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Same here. Used bookies an awful lot more last week for the first time in ages, for multiples, special offers etc. Will look to do same for all the big meetings now.
 
Dave G said:
Same here. Used bookies an awful lot more last week for the first time in ages, for multiples, special offers etc. Will look to do same for all the big meetings now.
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What do you mean you'll look to do the same? Anyone who thinks a Betfair account has more of a positive equity than a bookmaker account is an idiot.
 
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Im a betdaq man and since opening the account in september i hadnt used my accounts with pp and skybet until this week(apart from a few a/p bets) since.but i had to take advantage of a few of the tempting offers and would have been well in profit if it wasnt for the punting sickener of the week that was boston bob.i think my favourite aspect of the exchange is place betting 2.2 for long run is an absolute steal.i always used to view resorting to the exchanges was an admission as a failure to finding winners but it gives me so many more options and if you cant beat the join them eh.
 
i'm just generally a lazy fecker when it comes to trawling through bookies for best odds etc Slim. And I haven't used a lot of accounts for a few years and can't even find my username for some ( Corals being one ). I'm also more of a layer these days than backing them. Only tend to back things certain people on here flag up, except obviously the festivals when I have a go on ones I quite fancy then.
 
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The premium charge on betfair has also put a lot of big people off, hense the lower liquidity in races and football - obviously it doesn't affect the major events too much, but have a look at the in play place markets on the meetings tomorrow for example, or any football match where it isn't live on telly, compared to a couple of years back there is no money available.
 
granger said:
They offer fixed odds now too. Hungry bastar ds. They got very slack and the market is speaking
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There ain't any money in exchanges compared to spotsbooks. The irony is unbelievable. The exchange that wants to be a bookmaker.
 
I use Betfair only very sparingly. The last bet I had - the only one at the festival - was the 90 I took about Tofino Bay four or five nights before the race, before it was a confirmed runner.

I find when I'm doing my normal Saturday betting (I usually only punt on TV races), there's seldom any advantage in using Betfair. They might be a fraction longer (they weren't today with Big Occasion) but commission usually negates that, then most bookies offer best odds, which Betfair can't. Nor can Betfair offer a free bet if your selection wins at 4/1, or refund a phot-finish loser, or pay out on the double result.

Betfair is for a certain kind of punter and I'm sure plenty of its customers will love it but it isn't really suited to my MO.
 
Jeezus lads, 'seems to me yiz have been seduced by the Cheltenham-specific offers into thinking that Bookmakers are the dogs bollicks.

The Cheltenham bookie offers are a once-a-year allurement; now that it is over, normal service will resume and the Bookmakers will revert to type.
Bottom line is that on Betfair you are betting into a 101% book as against a usual 115% over-round with the Firms. The maths don't lie -- even with a 5% base commission rate you are still way, way better with Betfair/Smarkets/Daq (unless you are a Layer). ;)

If -- as has been hinted at in this thread -- Bookies odds were consistently bettering Betfair's, then we would all be living in Arbing Heaven.
 
It's not just Cheltenham. When Cue Card ran in the Ascot chase I had 30 on with Powers and 30 with Betfair. Then I saw the offer Hills were doing (money back if second) so I laid him back on the machine and backed him with them instead. Saturday's throughout the year you get different concessions.
 
icebreaker said:
Jeezus lads, 'seems to me yiz have been seduced by the Cheltenham-specific offers into thinking that Bookmakers are the dogs bollicks.

The Cheltenham bookie offers are a once-a-year allurement; now that it is over, normal service will resume and the Bookmakers will revert to type.
Bottom line is that on Betfair you are betting into a 101% book as against a usual 115% over-round with the Firms. The maths don't lie -- even with a 5% base commission rate you are still way, way better with Betfair/Smarkets/Daq (unless you are a Layer). ;)

If -- as has been hinted at in this thread -- Bookies odds were consistently bettering Betfair's, then we would all be living in Arbing Heaven.
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At the front end of the market bookmakers beat the bejesus out of the exchanges. That is a matter of fact.
 
SlimChance said:
At the front end of the market bookmakers beat the bejesus out of the exchanges.
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A bald statement like that needs factual statistical evidence to back it up.
(Otherwise it just looks like the wishful thinking of someone in the employ of a bookmaking firm).
 
icebreaker said:
A bald statement like that needs factual statistical evidence to back it up.
(Otherwise it just looks like the wishful thinking of someone in the employ of a bookmaking firm).
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in the bigger meetings the books are ultra competitive. The value for punters last week was simply amazing. When your getting 4/1 about something trading 4.9 and not paying commission your edge is massive .
 
SlimChance said:
The value for punters last week was simply amazing.
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Like I said, that was last week -- Cheltenham week.
The bread 'n butter meetings for the rest of the year consistently show up the disadvantageous odds offered by bookmakers in the main.
Tomorrow's Carlisle and Lingfield -- I am certain -- will highlight these discrepancies.
The evening meets at Kempton; well we just won't go there !

in the bigger meetings the books are ultra competitive
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Like the Grand National -- the biggest betting race of the year -- wherein the Bookmakers operate an over-round of 140% and short the price of the first six in betting before the off without lengthening any other runner?
 
good topic this one

I think bookies are value only in this meeting and at Royal ascot when opening he market non runner no bet 4 or 5 days before the meeting with no rule 4
especially if you are able to find the value knowing if a horse is going to run, the weather forecast and especially the horse that are not going to run.


On the day betfair is much better, better prices and the chance to lay in running.


About the antepost market, for me is dead, not because your horse can be a non runner, just because the prices are too short 99% of the times
if you fancy a horse for a classic it is better to bet him on the day and put all the money in the new price rather than going antespost before he race
 
icebreaker said:
Like I said, that was last week -- Cheltenham week.
The bread 'n butter meetings for the rest of the year consistently show up the disadvantageous odds offered by bookmakers in the main.
Tomorrow's Carlisle and Lingfield -- I am certain -- will highlight these discrepancies.
The evening meets at Kempton; well we just won't go there !


Like the Grand National -- the biggest betting race of the year -- wherein the Bookmakers operate an over-round of 140% and short the price of the first six in betting before the off without lengthening any other runner?
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Your point about the National is utter bollocks. Your referring to the show price. In the morning with 5 places the book will be betting over broke on their place book.
 
I'm also referring to the SP which at 140% inadequately compares with the Betfair SP of 101%.
SlimChance said:
Your point about the National is utter bollocks.
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Right then, that's me done with this topic. I'm not in a mood at the mo' to engage with someone who is so particularly belligerent.
Bet with the books if that is your want. You have my blessings, and I wish you well.
 
They shorten the first few in the national before the off to take advantage of the once a year punter who backs at SP. I'm pretty sure nobody here is backing at SP.

For me the main advantage of bookies is ability to take early prices before a betfair market has any liquidity whatsoever.
 
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