For Anyone Remotely Interested

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Let's just hope the Labour party helped sign their death warrant today. Brown is obviously completely out of his depth and having some of his own advisers distance themselves from his and his Stalin way of leadership speaks volumes. I thought Blair was bad enough but to put Brown in charge of this country would be certain economic suicide.

I feel sorry for any political party that has to pick up the pieces from this present government. Strangely enough, I don't really care which party gets in as long as this current shower are booted out.
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Mar 21 2007, 09:32 PM
Let's just hope the Labour party helped sign their death warrant today. Brown is obviously completely out of his depth and having some of his own advisers distance themselves from his and his Stalin way of leadership speaks volumes. I thought Blair was bad enough but to put Brown in charge of this country would be certain economic suicide.

I feel sorry for any political party that has to pick up the pieces from this present government. Strangely enough, I don't really care which party gets in as long as this current shower are booted out.
A rather individual view . Whatever you think of this government and I am no fan of its invasion of Iraq , far right wing criminal justice policies and utter contempt for civil liberties - to suggest that appointing Gordon Brown , the most successful chancellor by most economic measures for a very very long time would lead to " economic suicide " is not supported by the evidence of his time as chancellor.
 
Originally posted by Ardross+Mar 21 2007, 08:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ardross @ Mar 21 2007, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kathy@Mar 21 2007, 09:32 PM
Let's just hope the Labour party helped sign their death warrant today. Brown is obviously completely out of his depth and having some of his own advisers distance themselves from his and his Stalin way of leadership speaks volumes. I thought Blair was bad enough but to put Brown in charge of this country would be certain economic suicide.

I feel sorry for any political party that has to pick up the pieces from this present government. Strangely enough, I don't really care which party gets in as long as this current shower are booted out.
A rather individual view . Whatever you think of this government and I am no fan of its invasion of Iraq , far right wing criminal justice policies and utter contempt for civil liberties - to suggest that appointing Gordon Brown , the most successful chancellor by most economic measures for a very very long time would lead to " economic suicide " is not supported by the evidence of his time as chancellor. [/b][/quote]
History will tell whether he is/was a great chancellor. Trying to measure his success judged by the facts and figures spewed out from the Labour spin machine would be nothing more than guesswork.

One thing is for certain, the level of personal debt is higher than it has ever been. If Iraq is Blair's legacy, this may well end up being Brown's.
 
"Correct...from April 2008. Will negate the benefits for most of use of reducing the basic rate."

Off the top of my head I would say that everyone earning more than £17500 per year will pay less tax under the new rates than they do under the present ones.
The changeover is at the point where Taxable pay x 2p = £209 (in current year terms). Taxable pay for this purpose being Gross -personal allowance -2090 (10%threshold).
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Mar 21 2007, 09:23 PM
He won't - I'll be trying to get the scumbags out too!
Oh yeah, let`s have the Tories in again. That`ll really make everything ok.

Whatever the ###### up they made of Iraq i believe they`ve done ok running the country. Income tax is at a decent level, they`re caning the 4x4 drivers and the minimum wage was something i cannot imagine the Tories ever bringing in.

As for personal debt - people should learn to control themselves, i don`t put any of that on the Government.

Oh, and let`s not forget it was Mr Brown who shitcanned betting tax.
 
But what about the thousands of people who earn below £17.5k/yr? Surely they're the ones who find life hardest anyway without making it worse. Bringing in new benefit systems (all of which are open to abuse) can't be the way forward, can it??
 
A great phrase used by a BBC reporter this evening about the latest budget.

"2p or not 2p" :D

Borrow, borrow, borrow Mr. Brown. Is it any wonder so many people in the UK are in financial turmoil and personal debt has probably never been higher. More people going bankrupt etc etc

You only have to look at the current chancellor to see where that particular idea stems from. If you want so spend more, just borrow more money.

It's that simple isn't it, well it is isn't it? :rolleyes:
 
Financial turmoil my arse. Labour have finally managed to get unemployment below the level it was when that woman took over.

Governments have always borrowed money and always will do, i don`t see the issue there really. I`m not gonna defend all the guy`s measures, but things could be a lot worse.
 
I don't really understand all the financial very well, if i did i'd have a better job and not be shovelling ###### but had my dad on the phone tonight tryin to explain it shrug::

Am I right in thinking becaue i earn under 15k i pay more tax, but because i am a single parent i'll get higher child and working tax credits? Its going to go down a storm here with non parents, its hard enough to get by on the ridiculous cost of rents round here and the rubbish pay
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Mar 21 2007, 10:37 PM
Mega inflationary pressure. Tax Cuts. Watch the Bank of England's reaction next month.
Mega inflationary pressure is rather an overstatement - this isn't 1974and the Barber Boom .

As far as I can see this budget is tax neutral - a lot of dramatic reshuffling of the deckchairs for political effect
 
Possibly Ardross. But some reports already have cost of living rising by 7-8% at the moment and I have had a horrible feeling for a while that the method that this government uses for measuring inflation is masking the true picture.

On the back of February's (unexpected?) increase I can't see today's budget being well received.
 
Also interesting is that the hike in inflation in February is being attributed by analysts to an increase in air fares, ofsetting the falling fuel costs.

Given the green-friendly measures but in place today by the Chancellor I wouldn't rule out further pressures.
 
I would imagine interest rates will be going up again next month. I am not going to enjoy re-negotiating my mortgage in July from 3 years ago.
 
Well, I am going to be interested to read any justification as to his change in the rates of Corporation Tax - a reduction for companies making over £300K but an increase for those below!

I agree with his increase in vehicle licence tax for 'Chelesea Tractors' but for genuine agricultural sector businesses and families, there should have been an exemption (and no, I am not classing myself in that bracket - I do use my 'gas-guzzler' on the farm but it is my company car, so tough on me, my problem). Quite what they are meant to use when hauling livestock etc around with (other than an even bigger gas guzzler, ie their tractors), I don't know but, in the unlikely even any of those people are making some profits within their business, how nice to know that they will be paying not only increased V T and C T but also 2p per litre more on red diesel from October and .75p more after that. Those who were defending the government saying they were not anti-farming/rural sector couldn't have better proof of the reverse!!

This was/is an election exercise budget only and a personal vehicle for Gordon to smooth his election path to PM. Nothing unusual in that - poiticians were ever a dishonest bunch once the limelight and high office are achieved!

But the comments on personal debt above are, I believe, the worst indictment against this government. It is what will bring them down eventually but the biggest problem will be that those in Opposition may well get to the point where they don't want to be the Party picking up the pieces because they will be on to a no-win situation and that's the biggest danger we all face.
 
Evidently, the Chancellor is due to put in an appearance on BBC1 within the next hour or so to explain his budget. We will all be so much wiser after of that I am nearly sure. shrug::
 
The BBC have got a budget calculator on their site here so you can get a rough idea of how much better or worse of you will be.

Allegedly I'll be around £500 richer, however most of that is from tax credits and as every year their pathetic system fecks up our payments and now say I owe them money it cancels it out. And the increased Child Benefit gets cancelled out by increased NI payments & yet another rise in tax on diesel.
 
I got sent this emailthis morning from Moneymail. Obviously, it could be a lot of nonsense but it's worth a read anyway for anyone trying to make sense of what Uncle Gordon put together with yesterdays budget.


====================================================

Dear Kathy

Wow.

After 10 years of stealth taxes, U-turns and nasty surprises in the small print, you'd think that Gordon Brown - or Uncle Gordon, as he shall forever be known after his colleagues' 'Stalin' jibes - would have lost his capacity to surprise with his cynicism.

Tony Blair was always seen as the master of spin, but the Chancellor's final Budget shows that if anything, the man who's likely to be our next - unelected - Prime Minister is even more slippery.

What do we mean? Well, let's have a look at what's going on behind those "2p off income tax" headlines...

The Chancellor left the best until last with his closing announcement in the Budget that he'd knock the 22% income tax rate down to 20%. But as always, things are not quite what they seem.

The cut - which comes into effect from April 2008 - will cost £8bn. But he's scrapping the 10% starting rate of income tax, which covers around the first £2,150 earned after personal allowances. So people will start paying the 20% rate sooner. In other words, the less money you earn, the more likely you are to be paying more income tax.

So he's grabbed a few headlines by spending £700m and taking more money from low earners. Oh, except, actually, it won't even cost him £700m. Because National Insurance Contributions (NICs) - you know, those things that Governments say are contributing to your state pension, but are in fact just another income tax - are being 'realigned' with income tax bands, so that people earning up to £43,000 a year will pay 11% NICs. This will earn the Treasury another £1.5bn by 2009.

But of course, it takes time to work all that out, which means that Uncle Gordon got to score a few political points by wrong-footing the Tories who haven't had the guts to commit to any significant tax cuts as yet.

What about big business? They must be cheering that 2% cut in the coporate tax rate, right? Well, as Professor Peter Spencer of the Ernst & Young ITEM Club said: "It is a con trick, no doubt about it. I will be amazed if people are duped by it for more than five minutes."

As The Telegraph points out, companies will pay £1.4bn less in corporation tax in the 2008/09 tax year, but changes to capital allowances will free up £1.5bn in the same year - another headline grabber, and yet another net profit for the Chancellor. And of course, it was just bad news for small companies, who'll see their corporate tax rate rise from 19% currently, to 22%. Oh yeah, and the companies that explore in the North Sea still pay 50% - no cut for them, even though we need all the energy we can lay our hands on.

So what else did he do? The Isa rate finally moved upwards - from April 2008, you will be able save a whole extra £200 a year tax-free (well, tax-efficiently, at least), and put £3,600 of that in cash, rather than £3,000. As we've pointed out on numerous occasions, if the Isa allowance had risen in line with inflation, you'd now be able to save £8,400 - so in real terms, the Isa allowance is still way below what it was in 1999.

He's also stood by his beloved tax credits system. If anything sums up why the Chancellor shouldn't be allowed to run an egg and spoon race, let alone an economy, it's the tax credits system.

This arcane shambles, which has been roundly criticised by nearly all involved save Uncle Gordon, is incomprehensible to its recipients, and barely understood by its administrators. It has resulted in idiocies like low income families paying a marginal tax rate of 70% once their earnings reach a certain level (around £7,500).

Not much of an incentive to get back to work - and it'll be even worse from 2008, because once the 10% basic income tax rate is removed, and due to other changes in tax credits, families start paying the marginal 70% rate at an even lower level of income - around £6,500.

So overall, it was the usual mendacious conjuring trick that we’ve come to expect from the Chancellor – only even more chock-full of lies and half-truths than usual.

One of the reasons we’ve got the biggest tax law bible in the world, apart from India, is that the Chancellor generates all that paperwork effectively so that he can hide his tax rises from the electorate. All that bureaucracy, so that one man can put on a good show for one day, and attempt to pull the wool over the public’s eyes while the press, the pundits and the financial industry scrabble to keep up with all the small print and exceptions.

No salesman would be allowed to get away with it – why do we tolerate it in our politicians? We don’t have the answer – but we do suspect that when the economic climate becomes less forgiving, it’ll be a lot harder for the Chancellor’s successor to pull the same tricks that he has for the past eleven Budgets.
 
This was an absolutely nothing budget. Very little has changed. If it is inflationary, it is only to a miniscule level. I fail to understand why people are getting so hot under the collar.

I feel that he should have slightly increased taxation to make a real assault on the NHS, but he was never likely to do so when he was looking to curry favour with voters with a view to becoming PM.

There will almost certainly be another rate hike this year, but expect inflation to come down rapidly in Q2 as some of the artificial shocks come out and as the impact of the two rate hikes last year kick in.

To blame the level of personal debt on Brown is naive in the extreme. The levels of personal debt have been increasing all over the globe. Britain is not alone, and it is certainly not Brown's fault.
 
It does irritate me a little when 4x4's are always accused of being gas guzzlers :angy: I realise this is the case for the larger types but we have a Nissan xtrail & the fuel economy is better than that of our old car which was a common Mondeo :what:

We use our 4x4 as we have a caravan in which we holiday in the UK boosting our economy not another country's, we don't fly, yet we are going to be charged for the privilage :rant:
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Mar 22 2007, 01:25 PM
Caravan Tax. Now there's a thought.
An excellent idea but no chance whilst Margaret Beckett the Queen of Caravanning is in the Cabinet.
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Mar 22 2007, 10:56 AM
I got sent this emailthis morning from Moneymail. Obviously, it could be a lot of nonsense but it's worth a read anyway for anyone trying to make sense of what Uncle Gordon put together with yesterdays budget.

I assume that this is part of the Daily Mail - to suggest it comes anywhere near a dispassionate intelligent discussion of the budget would be absurd .

BTB seems to be spot on to me - I am worried though about the under £17,500 single persons - why should they lose out? They seem to be the one identified losing group.
 
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