Frankel and the International Stakes

Euronymous

Euronymous

Senior Jockey
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Jan 6, 2005
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Leyland
Cirrus Des Aigles
Nathaniel
St Nicholas Abbey

If all three of the above turn up what price do you think Frankel will be and what price (if any) would you want on one of the three to take him on with?
 
I might add I don't rate SNA over 10f but that's how I believe the books will open up the betting.
 
Mile and a half animals have a terrific record in the race. An interesting question came up on the Betfair forum this morning - if you could take any previous winner of the race to take Frankel on with who would it be? Sea the Stars or Sakhee for me.

York will really suit SNA. If Ballydoyle put a couple of pacemakers in I would back him each way.
 
Wouldn't take him on, on good ground or better, but would happily lay Nathaniel until the cows came home.
 
Be again looking at the lengths market - >5 again for me. Queally won't mess around, once he pushes the button, just a question of riding him out to the finish.
 
my feeling if the ground is good is that Frankel would beat St Nicholas Abbey by more than 8 lengths
 
Frankel is not even entered in the Arc

the only chance is Frankel stays in training as a 5yo (very unlikely)

if he would run I think he would win, especially if good ground.
 
Just a very small chance of the Arc..If he hacks up at York, what oppo outside of Camelot turning up would there be to beat in the planned Ascot swansong ? Would love to see him finish in Paris, but very bery unlikely. The owner is the only one who could change that, as HRAC not a big fan of that race at all..
 
Won't be holding my breath on an Arc bid, although that would be something to see. It would be very brave and perhaps he's the sort of older horse that would actually beat a 3yo in that race.

Do we know what Timeform gave Frankel for the Sussex this time?
 
There must be a supplementary stage for the Arc otherwise Frankel surely wouldn't be on Betfair's list?

I suppose with the Champion Stakes hopefully becoming the 10f version of the race (last year's renewal was awesome and hopefully that standard will continue) there is no need.
 
what is the actual likelihood of any of these 3 turning up? let alone all of them. hope they do anyway. he needs some opposition to beat. not been excited about any of his opponents since canford.

speaking of the mighty one interesting to see the talk of the prix de moulin where also freddy head mentioned a possibility of moonlight cloud having a go.
 
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Cirrus hasn't run for a while so is surely due a prep at least for Ascot.

Only natural target I can think of for SNA.

Same goes for Nathaniel.
 
Euronymous said:
Cirrus hasn't run for a while so is surely due a prep at least for Ascot.

Only natural target I can think of for SNA.

Same goes for Nathaniel.
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sna had a different prep race for the arc last year. not sure if he goes for that again though so maybe he'll go here but he generally does 12f races now.

4 races have been mentioned for nathaniel, this, irish champion, arc, champion stakes. likely it'll be 2 of 4 so 50/50 he turns up here.

not sure on cirrus. not seen any comments that he definitely takes his chance here. not heard much of anything since that doping scandal story.

hoping they do anyway. if its frankel v farrh again it'll be a shame.
 
Gosden is going for the trainers championship so it makes no sense to go for the Irish Champion instead of this.

Arc apart there isn't any races for SNA and I think they know he can't win in Paris. Like I said before this race with it's extended mile and a quarter and long straight suits mile and a half horses.

Cirrus I'm not sure will turn up either.
 
Euronymous said:
Gosden is going for the trainers championship so it makes no sense to go for the Irish Champion instead of this.

Arc apart there isn't any races for SNA and I think they know he can't win in Paris. Like I said before this race with it's extended mile and a quarter and long straight suits mile and a half horses.

Cirrus I'm not sure will turn up either.
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Dear, oh dear!:rolleyes:
The York International is the least stamina testing of all the British and Irish 10f gp1's, which is why Frankel's taking his first step up in it, and why it's often contested by milers such as Rip Van Winkle and Giant's Causeway.
John Gosden's smart enough not to chase F's arse in it, when there's a valuable, and much more suitable, 10f race in Ireland which also ties in nicely as an Arc prep.
AO'B intimated (after the King George) that SNA's best distance may be 10f, and he would be much more likely to get his favoured fast ground at York than Leopardstown.
Cirrus - I wouldn't know.
 
reet hard said:
Dear, oh dear!:rolleyes:
The York International is the least stamina testing of all the British and Irish 10f gp1's, which is why Frankel's taking his first step up in it, and why it's often contested by milers such as Rip Van Winkle and Giant's Causeway.
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Giant's Causeway and Rip Van Winkle beat other mile and a quarter horses.

The history of the race has shown if you put together two horses of similar ability, one of whom is best over 10f the other over 12f that the stayer usually wins. Singspiel beat Bosra Sham and Authorised beat Dylan Thomas.
 
its 10f + 88yards Reet..and with that long straight and wide sweeping bend its as tough as most dead 10f courses

its not like there is any downhill bits either

and as mentioned before its a trial distance for the Derby...very few people question a dante winners stamina for instance

i can see the point you are making with rvw..but its fair to say he was a proper 10f horse..his run against sts showed that and his run in the Derby where he just flattened out in the last 1.5f also showed that
 
SNA will go to the Irish Champion, AOB always sends his best available to the Irish Champion. And SNA needs a 10f G1 on his CV and the Irish Champion is his last best chance.
 
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