Graham Cunnigham Reopens Noland Wounds

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They should be held to account in some way for deliberately misquoting people or making things up. As it stands, various moans are made that people were misquoted but they don't kick up and they don't do anything to address that. Which makes you wonder how much is being made up and how much concerns people shouting their mouths off to journalists then wishing they hadn't, so lying to cover it up. Why not bay for blood if this is happening? I know I damn well would!
 
Shadow, you say nothing is being said, but what is happening today on this forum, and probably others? We are making clear our views in a published form.

The Betfair Forum, love it or hate it, has forced its way into the public's consciousness, and even the RP have to refer to it on an almost daily basis in Trading Post.

I take your point though, misquoting is not on. Perhaps the best way of dealing with it would be a media boycott by trainers and jockeys everytime an instance like this occurs. The likes of Cunningham and Hislop would do their pieces of course, but it might teach them a lesson - don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Journalists always wax lyrical about the importance of press freedoms, but as soon as they are openly criticised they form squares. Isn't it time the racing pros gave them a taste of their own medicine?
 
"You hardly need to be a genius to work out what a collective of racing journo's could do if they co-ordinated their activity? The wanton misreporting with the view to ramping a price is a potential line of abuse much more serious."

Could this have happened on this forum, on the Irish manager thread, earlier this week?

Have some of our members made millions by suggesting that we should take any price we could on Houlier??????? :D
 
It's a difficult one Dom. You can bay for blood as much as you'd like, but you won't get very far. The answer would be to deny interviews etc but that wouldn't stop the journo's who are likely to resort to making even more up. At least if you're speaking to them, you stand half a chance. If you cut off communication channels with them, not only would you stand to lower your own profile as a trainer, you would also risk them wantonly rubbishing you (I'm sure they'd be subtle about it) but ultimately a series of drip fed negative stories might impact on your own ability to attract owners etc The journo's should be bound by the industry code of conduct and subject to complaints through the PCC. Even if you do succeed in extracting an apology, a newspaper normally hides it away on page 23 and conceals it in something like a crossword clue. Rhymes with lorry - 5 letters. They never give a retraction anything like the same profile they will the orignial offending article.

To some extent the answer might very well lie in cyberspace, as the growth of forums such as this represent something of a challenge to the traditional organs of the industry. The reliability of information is of course a central plank in the racing game, and if people come to distrust the trade papers, they should start to turn elsewhere, but that is still a long way off, and frankly the calibre of some contributions and content of some of the more popular forums means that they are no where near being able to present a credible alternative yet. If anything, internet forums probably make journo's lifes easier at the moment.

Journo's don't like having their integrity questioned, in much the same way as teachers seem to go into meltdown when they're assessed by something like OFSTED. In my experience they're one of the most self-regarding and arrogant of professions I've ever come across, but there is a reason that they're known as the fourth estate
 
remember the gmtv outburst of heather mills? she was campaigning for a law where, if the journos are proven to be wrong, they have to print an apology the same size & on the same page of the original accusation/story? seems fair to me.
 
Originally posted by Colin Phillips@Jan 25 2008, 08:11 PM
Could this have happened on this forum, on the Irish manager thread, earlier this week?

Have some of our members made millions by suggesting that we should take any price we could on Houlier??????? :D
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I think circulation and credibility become crucial to successfully pulling a stunt like that Colin
 
Originally posted by jft2005@Jan 25 2008, 08:17 PM
remember the gmtv outburst of heather mills? she was campaigning for a law where, if the journos are proven to be wrong, they have to print an apology the same size & on the same page of the original accusation/story? seems fair to me.
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Yeah.... and didn't the media collectively pull the wagons round in a circle and basically run a series of radio phone in's, phone polls, and front page stories that were tantamount to saying this woman is barking mad.

Much as though I regard him to be the worst tipster this side of Alpha Centuri, and his constant use a rhyming slang grates, I can only think of Mark Winstanley who I can recall apologising to his readers for supplying duff information. As such I'm prepared to believe Winstanley disclosed it in good faith, as he had no professional incentive to draw attention to his error and the poor steer he gave his readers etc. The normal route is to forget it and pretend it didn't happen. In this case, I think it was probably a naughty owner wantonly telling a journo about a horses target (ironically - Hide The Evidence in this case) with the view to misleading the public in the knowledge that Winstanley would disclose it, and the price would stand a chance of reacting thus
 
Useful - opinions expressed on an internet forum really don't count!!! Anyone with a life outside of their laptop will not be losing sleep over what is being said by anonymous people operating under monikers on a forum.

Warbler, I appreciate what you are saying and realise it isn't necessarily the easiest thing but this is precisely why and how the press get away with it - the levels of sycophancy and kow-towing to what they say, fictitious or not, is ridiculous and encourages them to increase such behaviour. It's about time people stopped letting them get away with it without making so much as a murmur and bloody well speaking up for themselves! If indeed these quotes are made up in the first place!
 
Kicking up a stink about it is fine, but to whom do you kick up that stink ? The other paper ? Oh, there isn't one!!

To lllustrate further, my trainer in the last nine months has been misrepresented three times ( that I know) in the Raging Boast

1 ; Misquoted in 'Quote of the day' by a reporter we shall call 'Muttonhead' who for the purposes of making his own story funny ( it wasn't), made some of it up. Lazy ignorance.

2; Reported as being a permit holder after a winner. This is untrue and could possibly deter future owners who, impressed by a winner, would think they could not place a horse with the trainer if he is reported in the only trade paper as being a permit holder ( and therefore only allowed to train horses owned by himself and immediate family). RESULT; complaint to Raging Boast and no correction printed. Lazy ignorance.

3; Eyecatcher noted in running as trained by .... oh look they've got the christian name wrong. Lazy ignorance.

Furthermore I was interviewed by a racing journalist for a magazine in early December. It was a short piece, a very brief history of my life and career in racing, but within that short piece were TWO misquotes. Now neither of these were necessary, added nothing to the story, nor were they damaging to me in any way, but I DID NOT SAY IT !!!!!

Harmless ? Yes.

Wrong ? Yes

Suable ( is that a word ) ? Not really

But still annoying for the subject (me) to read something I said, that I did not say !!!
 
As you know, I know the stories behind all of the above! None of those were especially harming, misquotes about not wanting a horse to run at a Festival (for example) have wider implications on, say, the punting market for one, plus the relationship between a trainer and one of his major owners (which has potentially financially harmful effects were the owner to take his horses away). Hales is known to be volatile; if he was indeed misquoted he should most definitely kick up. He can go to either one of the racing channels (who would gleefully report that the RP had cocked up) or go to any one of the dailies. Rather than that, as everyone lets them get away with it they only get worse and chance their arm a little bit more on each subsequent occasion.
 
Exactly ! For all we know Hales may have kicked up a stinkand I suspect he has, hence Cuntinghams tripe today.

The point is they dont give a ###### about their mistakes for they have a monopoly and it matters little. Someone complains, ah so what, **** 'em.

I have told them of pictorial errors on several occasions where they have used incorrect pictures to illustrate a story. Here is such and such a horse being sold... errr no it isnt.

Correction the next day? Dont be silly !

What do I do about it ? Inconvenience them as often as I can, so I do my little bit !
 
So now you're saying you agree with me, you daft tosser!!!!!! Don't let 'em get away with it, say something - trouble is, too many people are too lazy or sycophantic to bother.
 
I nearly fell off my seat when a mate rang to say Brave Inca might run in the Champion hurdle this year. Colm was misquoted and it's about the third time with him. Interviewers when quoting should quote and not make it up or reword based on what they think he meant. That is just poor journalism.
 
<< I think it is the annoyance of being misquoted that offends the most, for the subject matter is not THAT important. For me it is the arrogance of this paper that gets up my nose. >>

Well yes that's partly it. But perhaps the main problem is that due to the unprofessionalism of the journalists in racing, which is partly down to their youth but also to their closeness to 'sources', it's very difficult for them [or by implication the people they are talking to] to know where the line is to be drawn.

Most of these people are 'friendly' if not actually friends - they meet over drinks at the course, they are invited to owners' & trainers' boxes, they meet at private lunches and dinners in people's houses, and at eg cocktail parties. They meet at racing industry social occasions, where they might be 'seated' next to one another, and they meet in racing pubs. I've been witness to a lot of this, as I'm sure have plenty of people on here, and how easy is it, esp when much drink is taken as it so often is in racing circles, to know quite what is on or off the record?

We'd all love the racing media to be less sycophantic to racing professionals [jocks, trainers an owners] - but they need to keep their sources 'open' and if they don't keep 'in there' some other begger will get in first. Then if they do try to show their independence, they can end up with egg all over their face. It's particularly hard with owners, a lot of whom are very wealthy men with huge egos - and relaxing when at the races. Of course they are going to deny having said X and Y if they were full of champers, or caught offguard on the phone, and said something silly.


As for the monopoly of the Raging Beast, it's much to be deplored, and we discussed it at length, useful, when The Sportsman went to the wall. I was of the firm opinion that if that paper had managed to get the big four betting shops to take the paper in their shops along with the RP, they could have survived - and since not a single betting shop ever did take it, I smelled a rat. I've no proof of course and might be barking up the wrong tree, but I've always wondered whether a 'deal' wasn't done.... I'd love to see the accounts for the period! I know if I'd been the Mirror Group Finance Director, though, what I would have advised!

The RP was then part of the Mirror stable, it's now in Irish hands of course, so it's always worth trying to get to the new management while they are trying to stamp their own own set of values on the paper, if you want to influence the new ethos. Having some professional experience of the media and publishing, I know there is always turmoil when a title changes hands, with people jockeying for position [excuse the pun]. Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall at editorial meetings this week!

On the subject of how to counteract the mistakes of the Raging Beast [some of which may be mischievous ie to annoy someone who won't play their game] - I think the ruk and atr and if poss the BBC and Ch4 should be used relentlessy to point up RP mistakes. Prob being that lots of them work for more than one media outlet.......... round we go again :rolleyes:
 
Who fckin cares. We get decent races opened for discussion that get like like ten replies on here and then a non-story appears like this and it gets two pages. Yawn.

Noland is a maga lay for the Arkle, he looked one paced and workmanlike.
 
Euro the subject of the thread is quite clearly 'mis'-reporting in the racing media, a subject which interests some of us a lot - if it doesn't interest you, then don't read the thread!
 
Originally posted by Bobbyjo@Jan 26 2008, 02:46 PM
So the good guys here are John Hales, Heather Mills and uncle goober...

I give up
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Bobby, as young journo making their way, can you categorically say with your hand on your heart, that you haven't twisted a story? I know damn well I've been totally misquoted before, and I'm also aware of sub politics are involved.

Unlike Shadow Leader, I realise its a Faustian Pact, to her credit, she wants to challenge it. I personally applaud her, but the profession is rife with charaltans and serious double dealers, is it not? I've had contacts on some the big London titles before now, and it is an eye opener :suspect:

As regards journos being above ramping a price (I don't think anyone's suggested that quite yet) it's been done before. It's been tried. And they were found guilty. Admittedly it was a financial column (in the Mirror of all papers) - (same group as the RP).

Fourth estate?
 
Heh heh, you're such a cynic Warbler! I like it :D

I love it when all those war reporters get caught out filing from their hotel room, and get it wrong!
I've met a few journos too, and wouldn't trust most of them, mind you back in my day - the old Fleet Street days - most of them were pickled most of the time; you wouldn't get away with that now.

Racing journos are different as the job involves so much socialising. But the core staff at the RP are under a lot of stress and always terribly pushed for time - they are very understaffed for the amount of work they have to do. I've only been in the office a few times but it's very pressurised, that may be why so many of them cut corners. Mind you it's more often the 'star' reporters who DON'T work in-house who are the worst offenders.

Some of the in-house guys - they are mostly guys and some are quite young - may not be racing people either, their speciality may be dogs or soccer etc. They may not be sensitive to the etiquette of phoning an owner or trainer for a quote - Sunday after lunch, I ask you :eek:
 
Sunday is no longer a taboo day to speak to people - in any walk of life. Heathens, the lot of us!
 
Most of the racing journos I know (and i know a few) spend their lives in the press rooms punting on Betfair all day and cracking jokes to one another...

The one who possibly works hardest of the lot yet gets little recognition is The Star's Tony Lewis. He has to tip a horse in every race, every day, is always working hard and is as genuine a man as you will ever come across.
 
Shadow,

Jumping back a few posts, I didn't mean to say posting opinions on forums is tantamount to what Cunningham did.

I was making the point that the forums are one of the few palces in racing where genuine opposition to the published views of the Racing Post exists - such as this thread.
 
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