Grand National fan all my life

Euronymous said:
I'm with you. I was annoyed by some of the comments on the BBC as well. Clare Balding claiming it was Paul Nicholls greatest achievement as a trainer was staggering.
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Surely you're used to them talking total bollocks by now though. The mantra of whatever you say, say something is king.
 
I suppose one might say getting a former Grade 1 chaser who was mixing it with Denman and Kauto Star - back after a tendon injury and a time in the wilderness back to being able to win an Argento, then run well in bg staying handicaps and to win the National at the age of 11 is some feat .
 
Agree with that. Its why he's the finest NH trainer of them all. The ability to bring them back as well as keep them on top form for so long is what sets him apart.
 
"It's probably harder for the people watching who aren't close to horses. Horses have to go. We all have to go, but it's tragic for connections.

"Dick Hern, a great man, once said to me that there is livestock and there is 'deadstock', and although it's not a nice thing to say, it's true."
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Yes thats all very countryside but it is not really the point is it? You may as well defend **** fighting, bear baiting and throwing donkeys off towers on that basis
 
So now Nicholls has won the Champion and the National, the two big ones that he's missed out on, is there anything he hasn't won?
 
I'm looking at page 2 of the Racing Post and seeing where they finished. 15 of the 40 got around. 10 fell. 7 unseated. 2 were brought down. Of the fallers, three of them went at the first two fences and Synchronised went at Beechers. The Fonaivon took out one. The Canal Turn caused carnage and we had another faller and four unseats.

So if you took out the first two fences, the smallest fence on the track and the Canal Turn, it would be 6 fallers and 3 unseats out of 32 horses. I don't think that's too bad. We have often commented on here that the run to the first fence allows the build up of speed. The second fence comes up quite quickly too but there doesn't seem to be too much carnage between there and Beechers. No fallers this year at the 3rd or 4th fences and the 5th was an unseat which brought two others down.

Synchronised's demise was not due to the fall but by running loose after it and falling again. I find it harsh to blame the race for that. He could easily have ducked around the fences. According to Pete was brought down tragically and that can happen in any race.

I don't think BBC covered themselves in glory again with their race views. They didn't have to show a wide camera angle that showed the screens up around one of the horses at the fence they by-passed. Do they have no cop on.
 
Cantoris said:
I don't think BBC covered themselves in glory again with their race views. They didn't have to show a wide camera angle that showed the screens up around one of the horses at the fence they by-passed. Do they have no cop on.
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I think the screens were up for Noel Feily.
 
I walked the course in 1989 and observed how the track is pan flat, the soil of a black nature which gives it a natural spring but which can give a change of going quickly. The fences are inviting to jump. Probably less of a run to the first; make the first four fences a little smaller to allow horses get a rhythm jumping and away you go. everybody in racing knows the risks involved yet most want to win the race. There is always more about injured horses than injured people which saddens me most of all.
 
harry said:
15 titles like THE greatest trainer....Martin Pipe!!
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Personally I don't think Pipe's better than Nicholls or Henderson. He was obviously very clever to be one of the first to latch onto interval training, but he never had the amount of classy animals Nicholls or Henderson have, he just seemed to win the title on sheer volume. Also, would he have won 15 without David Johnson? That's something Nicholls/Hendo haven't had, owners with 80+ horses, their horses are spread about far more.
 
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Simon said:
Personally I don't think Pipe's better than Nicholls or Henderson. He was obviously very clever to be one of the first to latch onto interval training, but he never had the amount of classy animals Nicholls or Henderson have, he just seemed to win the title on sheer volume. Also, would he have won 15 without David Johnson? That's something Nicholls/Hendo haven't had, owners with 80+ horses, their horses are spread about far more.
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Fair point Simon, where I'm coming from is that Pipe was a pioneer who was an outcast amongst his peers, who have adopted his methods now.
Johnson wasn't there for a lot of the years.

The big money horses nowadays head to the big two and they have large strings no?
 
Six of one and half a dozen of the other - Pipe had the numbers but now Nicholls and Henderson have the numbers but they also have the cash to go out and buy the expensive stores, the classy French horses, the overpriced pointers etc. they have the owners who don't mind spending heaps of cash to get the Grade 1 winner and I'm sure in the not too distant past some of those horses would have gone to other trainers and would have been stars for smaller stables.

Martin
 
Irish Stamp said:
Six of one and half a dozen of the other - Pipe had the numbers but now Nicholls and Henderson have the numbers but they also have the cash to go out and buy the expensive stores, the classy French horses, the overpriced pointers etc. they have the owners who don't mind spending heaps of cash to get the Grade 1 winner and I'm sure in the not too distant past some of those horses would have gone to other trainers and would have been stars for smaller stables.

Martin
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Was sat in Pond House with Martin Pipe a few years back and he explained to me that DJ had cut back and that all the French Star horses were being offered to him but out of the range of his owners...half a million was standard:blink:
He confirmed that these prices were a drop in the ocean to the Owners mentioned above.
He was even offered Kauto Star...According to Tom Malone...cue the abuse!!
As Martin mentioned, the owners now go to Nicholls and Henderson eg. Johnson, Lewis, Wylie, Smith, Hales etc from the likes of Richards, Knight etc but success is still quite hard to achieve....Hales And Smith excluded.
DJ hasn't found the grass greener has he?
The Pipe era was my favourite time in racing but all good things come to an end.
 
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He was offered Kauto Star - and I know that Colin Tizzard and Willie Mullins both turned down Brindisi Breeze before he ended up at Lucinda Russell's after he won at Loughrea last October.

Pipe still gets some ok horses from France but they're coming out of claiming hurdles mostly, NH's owners can afford to buy 4 or 5 at 300k or so a pop on the off chance that one becomes a superstar. For every Finian's Rainbow Michael Buckley has two or three Mossley's or a State Benefit's.
 
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