Has the political landscape changed?

EC1 said:
sdp should have stayed in Labour and corrected what they didn't like...the runaway politician is one thats even less trustworthy than the norm..these that have left to join UKIP are same ilk..no backbone for a fight...so no good as politicians..because fighting for what you believe in should be their mantra.
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I'm surprised that Clive didn't invoke a one time liberal politician who defected to the conservatives and ultimately became Prime Minister for the first time in 1940
 
clivex said:
Not a earthly.

She would certainly not want to work with third raters and nutters. Can hardly see her warming to Nigel either

She was no old England nostalgia freak. Quite the opposite and she was 100% metropolitan which ukip certainly isnt
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Why? she certainly had enough of those in her own cabinets and by her own admission only ever needed "six strong men". She was definitely a myopic nationalist Clive who'd watched too many ww2 films. You only need to dig out the transcript of her Brugges speech where she's telling Europe to be grateful to her otherwise we'd have been united under a single European rule 40 years earlier. She was more metropolitan, but still every bit a national jingoist
 
There are no Nigel lawsons, Peter carringtons, ken Clarkes or any of that ilk in ukip. Not even close. they were men of calibre and no one would deny that

You are treating heras if she was single issue. No way
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Can't agree, Euro.

The right wing media (ie 90% of the media) still dictates what people think.

Anti-Europe headlines.
Anti-Labour/pro-Tory headlines.
Anti-immigration misinformation.
Anti-benefits misinformation.
Economy scare stories while Labour are in power (leaving the financial crisis out of the argument).
Economy feelgood stories while the Tories are in charge (the LDs don't count).
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This perfectly sums up why ukip are digging into the labour vote. The arrogance of it all. Stupid voters unable to think for themselves

What's the retort then.

- there has been no mass immigration and no one has been affected by it.it a myth
- the eu has been a huge success and the euro is the reason why. Brilliant economic management
- labour didnt spend heavily during the brown years despite what all the official figures say
- current economic growth "feelgood" is a lie despite what the international growth figures state


Oh and another thing

- if your daughter is raped by a "minority" we will do our level best to cover it up. You racist
- and we demand that scots vote through purely english legislation . It's nothing to do with you

Now don't bother me any more you stupid white working class prole. I have better things to do such as protesting against the je.. Israel
 
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Warbler

Should tony benn have left labour and joined the communist party or swp or people's front of Judea?

His views were absolutely in line with those groupings and not mainstream labour.
 
Yes, but then I'm not a Trot.

I think there reaches a point where if your own views have evolved or diverged from those of a party, and if you take the decision that you're no longer able to influence from within, then the only sincere thing to do is form Respect (although in fairness he got chucked out)

Personally though, I don't necessarilly believe in the legitimacy of a party. If you trace their origins back upstream then you realise they're a corrupting artificial influence which we don't need, and which ultumately morph into some horrible self-serving monster. They're very often an expression of restrictions as much as they are freedoms, as they set boundaries and if you can't conform you're excluded. They stymie debate and restrict engagement as much as they promote it. In our system they didn't even exist until they were created by self-serving MP's. You don't actually vote for a party
 
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