Help Needed

P

PDJ

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I have a laptop that is 7 months old and so still under warranty. 3 weeks ago it failed on me and I sent it off to be repaired. I have just received a bill for £412.06 to repair what Toshiba are saying is liquid damage - specifically coffee. This is rather impressive as there is no coffee in my house as I cannot abide the stuff. Having spoken to three people at various stages of the food chain, it is becoming clear that they are intractable on this matter.

Consequently I am having to claim on my home and contents insurance and pay an excess of £50.

What would be my best routes were I to make a complaint about Toshiba and would it be worth it?
 
Do you have a small claims court over there? Threaten them with that if you do (and claim it on the house insurance as well just in case you lose).
 
Hi Paul

Stupid question, but is this the laptop that you take into school? ie. Could someone else have spilt coffee on it and not told you perhaps?

I do not think Toshiba will back down on this so if I were you I would take the course of action reference the home insurance, but I would do my best to find out how the coffee damage happened and where and more importantly who did it.

Kathy
 
Where are you living PDJ?

I'm a consumer adviser working in the UK and hence know all about UK laws but they may be slightly different elsewhere.

I'm happy to help as much as possible though.

I think that first of all it is the trader where you bought the laptop that you should be pursuing and not Toshiba - but I won't go into too much detail now...
 
He lives in the UK

Purr's point is that when a consumer buys goods such as a computer there is an implied condition in the contract imposed by the Sale of Goods Act that they are of satisfactory quality. Thus for example if you buy a kettle and when you get it home it does not work you should reject it and ask for your money back and buy another rather than invoking a manufacturer's guarantee. Your contract is with the seller.

This is a question of evidence . If they can show coffee was poured on it that is likely to void the warranty even if as we know PDJ did not do it. If coffee is the cause any arguments about satisfactory quality when PDJ bought it will equally be neither here nor there.

Second , as far as the vendor is concerned 7 months is quite a long time to pass and he will be unlikely to be able to rescind on the basis of satisfactory quality and could only claim damages .

Which of course returns us to the warranty . If it can be shown that coffee is not the cause then that would have to be honoured anyway .

I would want to see their engineer's report. I would also wish to examine the terms of the warranty to see whether it allows them to proceed to repair even when they find that a fault is caused by something that voids the warranty before informing the customer . Such a clause might be a breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
 
In all seriousness - do you really have a case to complain to Toshiba about? Surely it is irrelevant that it wasn't coffee spilt over it - wouldn't the same go for any liquid damage, no matter what it liquid it was?
 
Second , as far as the vendor is concerned 7 months is quite a long time to pass and he will be unlikely to be able to rescind on the basis of satisfactory quality and could only claim damages .
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Quite right you cannot reject after this length of time and in this situation. However, he would be entitled to a satisfactory repair or like-for-like replacement. If a repair or similar replacement is not possible, then you are looking to rescind the contract and claim damages. (Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002).

After 7 months the burden of proof is on the buyer to prove it is faulty. So if it were to go to court, say, it would be down to PDJ to prove that the fault is inherent in the product and not caused by something he had done. Within the first six months it would be down to the trader to prove that the item is *not* faulty.

Proving that he had not spilled anything on it could be tricky to do - he'd need to get an independent opinion.

It's always best to chase the trader under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended by the Regs above) as if you go back to the manufacturer you could be compromising your future statutory rights (which otherwise could potentially last for up to 6 years). Manufacturers' warranties since March 2003 are legally binding, but dependant on the terms and conditions laid out in the warranty.

However as Ardross says, these terms should not be unfair. An unfair term is any that puts the trader in a stronger position than the consumer.

They shouldn't have carried out any work they were not authorised to do by you - if this is the case, you could ask them to put the item back into the condition it was in before, as you had not authorised the work.

Of course, then, you are still in the position of fighting to prove your case, and it complicates things that the manufacturers have done work on the machine....

There isn't really anywhere that you can make a complaint about Toshiba - in a civil matter such as this, the only body with power to order them to carry out any action is a judge in the small claims court.

Sorry that I can't be more helpful - and I hope this makes sense, only I am at home now and have had a long day dishing out advice so am a bit frazzled!!
 
Sorry that I can't be more helpful - and I hope this makes sense, only I am at home now and have had a long day dishing out advice so am a bit frazzled!!
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This forum is often quite amazing - Purr, you've been more than helpful and we're now doubly lucky to have both you and James (Ardross) on the board to offer this type of advice.
 
Here's another one for you legal eagles then.

I purchased a PC game last week, and on attempting to install it discovered it was faulty. Foolishly (and uncharacteristically) I had also misplaced the receipt, however, I decided to take the game back anyway to have it exchanged.

On arrival at the shop I was informed that if I didn't have the receipt then I needed a copy of credit card bill to prove that I had purchased it or they would not be prepared to exchange. However, given that the relevant credit card bill won't arrive until nearly the end of May, I told them that I was unable to provide such, but still wanted an exchange, to which they refused.

Upshot of the actual story is that after screaming at the manager for a bit, then screaming at their customer services for a bit I got an exchange. However, what I want to know is this - did I have to have a receipt? The DTI website says no, but also states that it is not unreasonable for them to ask for a copy of the credit card bill. So which would apply in this instance?
 
Thanks for the help and advice, James and purr. They seem to be totally against any free repair.

As an aside, I did spill wine on it 3 months ago but it was a tiny amount and it has been working fine every day since so surely that wouldn't be the problem, would it? If so, sorry for wasting everyone's time!!

Anyway, meeting with the claims advisor for my insurance today so fingers crossed it will be sorted soon.
 
That is just a matter of evidence Paul - can they show the fault they have fixed was caused by the wine spillage and explain why it would only fail 3 months after it occurred .

What about the fact they did the repair without telling you they were going to charge you ? Did they warn you of that ? Did you authorise them to do it ?

James

PS Simmo - I don't know what the Scottish law is but no you do not need a receipt to get your money back if goods are faulty . A receipt is simply evidence of purchase . The serial number packaging etc ought to have been enough to prove that it was yours purchased from them .
 
PS Simmo - I don't know what the Scottish law is but no you do not need a receipt to get your money back if goods are faulty . A receipt is simply evidence of purchase . The serial number packaging etc ought to have been enough to prove that it was yours purchased from them.
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I was away for a stint in Galway with the familly. Son and heir had been bribed with a playstation game on the way down, which we got in Dublin. Unfortunately the game didn't work which led to a deal of frustration from sonny boy. To alleviate the situation I went to a completely different shop in Galway and explained the situation and they happily exchanged the game, as they said they would get a replacement for it anyway.
 
The computer has not yet been repaired, I have merely received the quote so far and am deciding my next move.
 
Thank God for that .

Definitely ask for the engineers report , and the exact component that the "coffee" was supposed to have damaged.
 
Would you have to pay for an engineers report in such circumstances? It is probably more expensive for them to produce the report and argue the toss over it, than it would be to repair the laptop.
 
They must produce the evidence that the coffee has damaged something to void the warranty , they most certainly cannot charge for producing that evidence.
 
After 6 weeks nagging the engineers report finally arrives ...

Re Toshiba Laptop.

Liquid was spilt on the laptop, causing damage to component FZR456, thus invalidating the warranty.

Regards

D. Engineer
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That is why Melendez you ask the following

1 What evidence is there that liquid was spilt on the laptop

2 How has the liquid purportedly been identified

3 What damage was caused to which component , setting out the function of that component , how the damage caused affects the operation of that component
 
I'm not arguing with that. My guess is if you persist in looking for that sort of stuff they will just fix it, ex gratia, as a customer relations exercise.

If your small claims courts are the same as ours. Not turning up loses the case - turning up costs more than the amount of the claim, as would going through the ropes to provide the above information.
 
:)

Paul message is make life difficult for them

Don't of course take a small claim unless you think you have good grounds to win .
 
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