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How Often Do You Bet?

LUKE said:
Tell us about Salsabil -Ian.
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I was working at the Racing Post when Salsabil was a 2yo.

She won the Prix Marcel Boussac by a couple of lengths and back then I don't think the British bookmakers could tell one French Group race from another and AR Dennis offered her at 20/1 for the 1,000 Guineas on the Monday.

I can't remember whether I phoned up for a bet or put cash on in their shop in Greenwich (I lived in London Docklands and would sometimes walk through the foot tunnel there).

Anyway, I backed her, was delighted when she bolted up in the Fred Darling (won my ante-post stake money back on her in that) and obviously even more pleased when she won the 1,000 Guineas.

Nothing more to tell, really, oh apart from the fact I recall phoning up AR Dennis for a bet not long afterwards and the telephonist said: "We've been told to put you through to the head trader next time you call" and, after they put me over to him, the head trader said: "Look, Ian, we know who you are, you're the Ian Davies who's at the Racing Post, right? I don't mind laying you bets, so long as it's direct with me from now on and you tell me the background to why you're wanting a bet every time."

I can't remember (over 30 years ago) if that was the exact transcript of what he said, but it's close enough and it still makes me smile remembering it.
 
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Had very different amounts of betting activity depending on what years you'd of caught me. Between 95- 2005 I was a recreational gambler and would bet on pretty much anything horses, dogs, sports, poker. Bet with my mates on games on snooker, pool, cards and other stuff. I worked in a bookies and lived in a pub that my ex ran at the same when I was only twenty and her brother was a dealer so my whole life was gambling drinking and just generally getting up to no good and I lived payday to payday although having a lot of fun .

2005 - 2010 My personal circumstances had changed a lot. I got into a racing forum bet only horses and fairly casually as I was short of money at the time. 2010- 2019 I started to do all right and was turning over some large sums 2 best years were 18k and 29k profit from a massive turnover got refused a mortgage in 2012 on account that I'd turned over a around 60k in 3 months in betting transactions. I appealed to the underwriters and got my mortgage I finished it 9 years later.

With lack of motivation for money,a change in job leading to less time to study and the death of a close friend more like a father to me and definitely my best racing buddy. I lost all interest and from 2019 onwards apart from maybe a little cameo at the festival or Aintree I barely placed a bet. Started to get into the racing again after last years festival and national meets and haven't reached anywhere near the levels of punting or interest that I have before. I'm having a decent Multiple once a week and the odd smaller bet on the odd tracker horse that comes through but that's about my lot. Can't see me returning to anything more than a casual punt with account restrictions closures plus the tightening of all the markets that's gone on since I went away. I'd really be fighting a losing battle. I'll keep having a weekly swing at a big payday but if it never comes it's no bother as if it did come I wouldn't know what to do with it as I'm a man of simple needs these days although a few extra holidays and days racing would never go amiss. I have enjoyed having an interest again though.
 
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LUKE said:
I consciously changed my approach to betting this year -so far I've only had 8 bets.Basically I only want to bet where I think I have an advantage.
At my betfair peak I had a betting volume of €1.2 million in a year -that figure snowballed from a big priced HdB winner at Dundalk on Breeders Cup night-With nail was his name.Later that night I place laid Mastercraftsman for an absolute lump.How Murtagh didn't win on him I will never know.Keeping him out of the First 3 was a work of art.
Anyway Betfair has been on a steep decline for years -it is OK for the occasional bet but I wouldn't deposit a lump sum to play for the weekend.
I watch as much racing as possible but I would have no difficulty going 6 or 7 weeks without a bet but I always like to have at least one strong long term opinion.
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Why do you think Betfair is in decline Luke? You'd have thought with account closures deposit restrictions and all the rest of the shenanigans that Betfair would just go from strength to strength.

Also like I'm fairly comfortable in life but not loaded, so the odd 5 figure win I could always find a use for. The levels you're punting at there are huge. I don't know whether if I was in a position to afford to be punting like that whether I could be bothered having a bet id almost be thinking feck it and retire and like Thanos sit on a rock and watch the sunset when alls right with the world. Is it still just the buzz of winning that gets you ?
 
Ian_Davies said:
I was working at the Racing Post when Salsabil was a 2yo.

She won the Prix Marcel Boussac by a couple of lengths and back then I don't think the British bookmakers could tell one French Group race from another and AR Dennis offered her at 20/1 for the 1,000 Guineas on the Monday.

I can't remember whether I phoned up for a bet or put cash on in their shop in Greenwich (I lived in London Docklands and would sometimes walk through the foot tunnel there).

Anyway, I backed her, was delighted when she bolted up in the Fred Darling (won my ante-post stake money back on her in that) and obviously even more pleased when she won the 1,000 Guineas.

Nothing more to tell, really, oh apart from the fact I recall phoning up AR Dennis for a bet not long afterwards and the telephonist said: "We've been told to put you through to the head trader next time you call" and, after they put me over to him, the head trader said: "Look, Ian, we know who you are, you're the Ian Davies who's at the Racing Post, right? I don't mind laying you bets, so long as it's direct with me from now on and you tell me the background to why you're wanting a bet every time."

I can't remember (over 30 years ago) if that was the exact transcript of what he said, but it's close enough and it still makes me smile remembering it.
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Did you win enough to clear your mortgage -that was always my punting ambition.Managed to clear the mortgage at 38 by borrowing to buy 2 houses and a flat and getting out about a month before the money markets rent wrong.A mortgage is probably the biggest gamble most of us will ever take.
 
Danny said:
Why do you think Betfair is in decline Luke? You'd have thought with account closures deposit restrictions and all the rest of the shenanigans that Betfair would just go from strength to strength.

Also like I'm fairly comfortable in life but not loaded, so the odd 5 figure win I could always find a use for. The levels you're punting at there are huge. I don't know whether if I was in a position to afford to be punting like that whether I could be bothered having a bet id almost be thinking feck it and retire and like Thanos sit on a rock and watch the sunset when alls right with the world. Is it still just the buzz of winning that gets you ?
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Danny betfair is in decline for one reason -lack of liquidity.Hawk Wings Lockinge was the first race on betfair to have over £1 million matched on betfair. I think I am correct in saying pre pandemic every daytime British horse race would have a million matched with slightly less for evening racing -Irish racing was always slightly less.These days it isn't uncommon to see good races at Irish Premier tracks with less than 200K matched.
The theory is the mugs were cleaned out and haven't been replaced -also betfair tend to hoover up the obvious mistakes.
By the way Danny -I no longer bet at those levels -it was an amazing buzz.
 
LUKE said:
Did you win enough to clear your mortgage -that was always my punting ambition.Managed to clear the mortgage at 38 by borrowing to buy 2 houses and a flat and getting out about a month before the money markets rent wrong.A mortgage is probably the biggest gamble most of us will ever take.
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I don't like talking about specific stakes or win sizes, but I cleared my mortgage on my Docklands apartment while in my 30s, though that was partly due to a Lingfield Jackpot win while at the Post.

I was deeply boring, even as a relatively young man.

I let it slip I'd had a nice win and, when asked if I'd celebrated by buying a new car, or booking a holiday, I honestly replied: "No, I went into the Abbey National when I got paid out and made a capital repayment on my mortgage. But I did have an extra popadom with my Friday night Indian takeaway that week too!" 😂
 
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LUKE said:
Did you win enough to clear your mortgage -that was always my punting ambition.Managed to clear the mortgage at 38 by borrowing to buy 2 houses and a flat and getting out about a month before the money markets rent wrong.A mortgage is probably the biggest gamble most of us will ever take.
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Not really my deposit money came from gambling. Then any wins I had I usually made over payments and finished it in 9 years. I had a mate of sorts who I knew from the forum who was a pro punter and we started to escalate at the same time. He took his punting to the next level and lived the dream but he had no family. I played it safe as I'd got my partner and her daughter to take care of. So not a very sexy story really I got more safe and boring the older I got. Although my gambling was not as restrained as what you guys talking about as I still did a lot of stupid bets and bets for entertainment far too many multiples and exotics but I just seemed to do enough good stuff to outweigh the bad. I did miss multiple big 5 figure paydays by narrow margins which nearly broke my mental sanity and maybe a couple of those could of changed the game but who knows.
 
Out of curiosity, Ian, how good was the information coming into the RP offices?

I've always felt that successive Pricewise guys down the years were just good at sifting the incoming info.

In similar vein, ITV Racing people seem to be good at interviewing connections of winners not long before the off, as though they've heard something and want to give the connections some advertising.
 
I was only there from 1988-1994, Maurice.

I think half the staff were on Nashwan for the 2,000 Guineas and The Derby after the word reached Raynes Park he was flying up the West Ilsley gallops in the spring of 1989, there were others too, but it was a long time ago.

I don't want to get into knocking anyone, but Pricewise was a bit of a joke - no internet, all the bookies blindly submitting often wildly differing prices, you'd have to be pretty useless not to make a long-term profit on paper at best advertised odds which, in reality, were usually gone before the phone lines opened in the morning, let alone the shops.

I don't want to generalise, but people tend to be tipsters on racing papers, instead of full time pro punters, for a reason - they couldn't cut it trying to be the latter and a few tried and failed.

I only know of one person who ever left racing journalism and properly made it as a pro punter, but he's very private and we're no longer friends, so it wouldn't be appropriate to go into details - not that anyone is asking me to. 😂
 
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Ian_Davies said:
……..I don't want to generalise, but people tend to be tipsters on racing papers, instead of full time pro punters, for a reason - they couldn't cut it trying to be the latter and a few tried and failed……..
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I can subscribe to that , Ian. I’ve always done pretty well until I’ve upped the ante when it’s gone pear shaped. Finally accepted that I simply don’t have the balls to play with big money
 
Yes, I can recall at least two.

Mark Coton was very successful, according to the RP headlines, as Pricewise but decided to go it alone and went for a premium phone service. He didn't seem to last long.

Was James Willoughby the first Pricewise? I always liked reading his angles even if I didn't always agree with him. He struck me as more of a lateral thinker and I hear him mentioned every now and again.

Tom Segal seems to know which side of his bread is buttered in terms of making a living [as a journalist] from being Pricewise.

How well did you know Tony Peach and Tony Paley? Did the latter take over from the former as editor of the Handicap Book/Update?

I used to get letters published regularly and got word that they were going to let me have a mini-series of items on handicapping but we were three 'episodes' in when I got a phone call from one of them saying it was being pulled because it was too close in content to a book from the RP stable by David Dickinson (which they sent me) on handicapping which was about to go on sale. I was slightly miffed that the series was stopped but flattered that I'd been doing pretty much what they were doing.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I don't want to generalise, but people tend to be tipsters on racing papers, instead of full time pro punters, for a reason - they couldn't cut it trying to be the latter and a few tried and failed.g
I've often thought "if thos guys are so good,why are they working for a livng?
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Reckon those who are making it don't tell others,either.
 
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I think I've said more than enough, tbh, Maurice - I had dealings with, and knew on some level, just about everyone you can think of from that time and many you might either still read or see on TV today, but I'm not minded to discuss my private views on any of them specifically, or individually, publicly.

It was all a long time ago, I have always been a private person, including while in racing journalism, I seldom socialised with any of them and tbh I haven't got a positive word to say about most of them, they're certainly not the sort of people anyone should be looking up to and, as my grandmother once said: "if you can't say anything nice about anyone don't say anything at all" I will leave it at that.

I wasn't too keen on most of the people I met in the betting industry after my move into that either - I just don't like most people generally and can count the number of true real life friends I have on the fingers of one hand - but it did bring me into contact with a few proper professional punters and the gap between what they knew and what the racing journalist tipsters knew was a gaping chasm.

Do your own thing, go your own way and keep any edges you discover to yourself, would be my advice to anyone who asked me for it - you won't win long term by taking any notice of anything you read or hear in the racing print and broadcast media.
 
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I bet everyday but for minimal stakes and use a system based approach, a portfolio of micro systems that I put together using geegeez.co.uk, last year my turnover was €10,300 and my profit was €225 which seems shi*e considering the work and effort involved but I see it as a labour of love and a hobby that is cost free.

I would have a seperate bankroll for Saturdays, festivals high profile races etc where the bets are bigger and the selection methods based more on tracker horses and video analysis, time permitting.
 
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