Hunting

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PDJ

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Hunting with Dog now having the Parliament Act used to push it through. A ban may be in effect by Febraury.. Anyone got an opinion on this ;)
 
I have heard that the hunting mob are thinking of taking it to the human rights court? What about the rights of the animal?

I know this might be a saw point to some but i cant see the point in chasing a animal with a pack of dogs. If the fox as they say is a manance then they should get someone in to trap or even shoot the thing, but to just send out the dogs and watch why it gets torn apart is sick.

Before anyone asks yes i have been on a hunt as a guest, and i did not like it so i left. The person i went with stayed but he told me after that he was not that keen on it he just went because it was the done thing with the people he hangs about with.

I hope they do ban it, but i can see this going on for a long time yet.

Regards
 
no comment except to say that it won't be banned by February - Tone is too frightened about the adverse effect it may have on voting figures so favours the option to give it a further 18 months before it is banned. Tha way he doesn't have a lot of angry people to contend with before an election - or so he hopes!!
 
I'm not pro-hunting. The closest I have been to a hunt is jump racing.

However, if this government listened to ill-informed public opinion as closely on subjects such as crime, immigration and the war in Iraq as they have on hunting we would be hanging child molesters, keeping asylum-seekers on the a remote rock in the Atlantic until their claims could be dismissed, and we most certainly not be fighting Bush's War For Oil.

If they are so concerned with animal rights, why don't they stop vivisection first ? And while we're on the subject, why don't they start treating the factions of the anti-vivisection movement who deem it acceptable to maim humans in their cause ?

That's my lot !!
 
I've just heard that the Lords have (correctly) voted again for hunt licensing, and therefore rejected the 18 months delay option, so the ban will be implemented in February next year, after the Parliament Act is invoked in the next day or so.

Poor Mr Blair, don't you just feel so sorry for him?

It looks like interesting times are soon to be with us.

Let battle commence - bring it on!
 
You really have to wonder just how thick this goverment think the electorate really are. Oh I know, let's extend it by 18 months or so until we have our feet nicely under the table again.....ffs <_<
 
Yup, I am eagerly anticipating the forthcoming fireworks - poor ol' Tone, stating that he will stand a 4th term as PM but not a 5th one, he's got to be voted in first.......
 
Well, it will play well in a few rural seats, SL, but that's about all. For the vast majority of the urban population, a ban on fox hunting is a good thing and will help Labour. In a few rural seats, it may make a difference but most of those are Tory anyway. It would only cost Blair an election if it was in any way close.

ICM this morning put the Tories on 30%, eight points behind Labour and four points below their equivalent mark in November 2000 AFTER the fuel protests. There's also the fact that in 2001 the elction was fought immediately after foot and mouth which won Labour few friends in the countryside and they STILL won with a majority of 160+.

It's about time the pro-hunting lobby realised how little power they have and how they will lose any credibility they still have with silly stunts and antics.
 
I wouldn't be so sure, Stodge.........

Besides, the government are showing what a joke they are by using the Parliament Act to force through the ban - it is a f*cking travesty of civil liberties & I am confident that the EU will agree with myself & many others in declaring it as such.
 
I am not so sure it is a traversty of civil liberties. Here is what the Parliament Act was designed for

The Parliament Act was passed by Parliament in 1911 and amended in 1949.
It says (section 2.1) that

"if any Public Bill ... is passed by the House of Commons [in two successive sessions] (whether of the same Parliament or not), and, having been sent up to the House of Lords at least one month before the end of the session, is rejected by the House of Lords in each of those sessions, that Bill shall, on its rejection by the House of Lords, unless the House of Commons vote to the contrary, be presented to His Majesty and become an Act of Parliament on the Royal Assent being signified thereto, notwithstanding that the House of Lords have not consented to the Bill..."

Section 2.3 of the Bill defines "rejected":
"A Bill shall be deemed to be rejected by the House of Lords if it is not passed by the House of Lords either without amendment or with such amendments only as may be agreed to by both Houses."

Therefore, if the House of Lords continues to reject the popular will of the people, as expressed by the House of Commons, then there is a solution to the constitutional crisis - the House of Commons is able to over-ride the Lords.
 
Of course it is a travesty of civil liberties - I know several people who agree with me, even people close to you!!!! (think back to a suday lunch...)
 
:lol: I don't have to agree with my parents!!!! Fair comment though. However, once it becomes outlawed then surely it cannot by definition be a breach of civil liberties as it will become illegal. :confused:
 
Compared to continued attempts to restrict jury trial , identity cards , reversal of the double jeopardy rule, anti social behaviour orders etc banning fox hunting has no place at the top table of civil liberties abuses .

In fact i still have trouble in seeing how tearing animals limb from limb with a pack of hounds after pursuing it terrified and exhausted is a civil liberty

But i will shut up now and raise a glass to the Parliament Act 1949 - the " legal challenge " to which will be an absurd waste of money and has about as much chance of succeeding as Brian Boru in the Nunthorpe
 
OYEZ OYEZ OYEZ.

The Government hereby decree that Fox Huntingnot to mention Deer Hunting with Hounds and Hare Coursing will cease to be legal in three months time.

This will piss off a few and please a lot.

God save the Fox and the Hare and the deer and down with the plebs. :D
 
This ban obviously won't boost racing, but I remain of the opinion that the alarmist stories put around by the Countryside Alliance as they desperately seek to link the activities will prove unfounded.

Yes, I know drag hunting won't entirely fill the void, but I'm sure foxes will continue to be culled (only by means more acceptable to the majority of the electorate) in areas where it is necessary to do so, social gatherings in funny clothes on horseback will continue, and so too will point-to-points, not least because the latter are very popular and raise lots of cash, which the rural mob can no doubt still find a use for.

As for the ''reasons'' for this legislation, I remain of the opinion that having to obey the occasional law you disagree with is good for you and character building.

I obeyed a lot of laws I disagreed with 1979-1997 and, given it's taken this government seven years to come up with a law which really gets up your nose if you're a rural Tory, I'd say on balance you've got off pretty lightly. :lol:

I seem to recall some of those who flouted the poll tax laws with civil disobediance getting banged up in prison so why hunters think they should avoid similar treatment is beyond me.

Democracy = doing as the majority bloody well tell you to from time to time - so suck it up, do as you're told or get your collar felt, and hope for a change of government to repeal the law in due course.

But don't hold your breath, while waiting for that to happen. :lol:

As for the unemployment this ban will allegedly create, well that has never been an acceptable defence as to why an activity the majority find morally reprehensible should continue, I'm afraid.
 
Besides, the government are showing what a joke they are by using the Parliament Act to force through the ban - it is a f*cking travesty of civil liberties
Click to expand...

Ah. Um. A teensy-weensy voice somewhere is telling me that the House of Commons is the elected house and the House of Lords is, er, well, I'm not quite sure what, these days ...

:blink:
 
"Democracy = doing as the majority bloody well tell you to from time to time - so suck it up, do as you're told or get your collar felt, and hope for a change of government to repeal the law in due course."

Ian, you confuse democracy with the tyranny of the majority.

But in any event, as the law will be pretty well unenforceable, it may not matter much whatever way you look at it.
 
Unenforceable ? I think not . If criminal penalties won't work how about sequestrating the assets of those who break the law . That will stop them smartly
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Nov 18 2004, 08:41 PM
I wouldn't be so sure, Stodge.........

Besides, the government are showing what a joke they are by using the Parliament Act to force through the ban - it is a f*cking travesty of civil liberties & I am confident that the EU will agree with myself & many others in declaring it as such.
Click to expand...
I dont think that going to the EU will help the fox hunters in anyway. I have been going through the EU rules and laws and have come up with what i think will stop the fox hunters in there track..

The EU policy on animal welfare.

Cruelty against animals, mistreatment, the use of animals in competitions, shows, cultural or sporting events such as bullfighting, dog fighting and dog-racing are examples of issues that remain under the sole responsibility of the national governments. And the EU does not get directly involved in these issues. This includes bull fighting and fox hunting.

So it looks as if the EU wont even get involved in the case as it involves curilty to animals.

Regards
 
I'd just like to make point on drag hunting , In a normal hunt you're in the field for 4-5hrs . In a drag hunt this is much shorter because you have a definite trail . Because there is a solid scent from the dogs the hunt is played out at a much faster pace . This fast pace can result in injury even in experienced riders and horses. As someone who has hunted I can speak from experience . Drag hunting is more dangerous that hunting foxes . I wonder would anti-hunt campaigners be so vociferous against lamping . Foxes are vermin as far as any farmer is concerned .
 
Don't confuse the EU and ECHR

The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU and the European Court of Justice .

Although ECJ decision making is meant to be in conformity with the ECHR - EU law will have nothing to do withn hunting the pro hunters are talking about an ECHR challenge I imagine based on Article 8
 
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