Hurricane Fly retired

What is fair is the reason the doubts can exist is because Willie has so many top class horses and he keeps them apart. He makes hurdling or chasing, trip, course, and UK or Ireland campaign decisions to actively avoid his best horses clashing wherever possible.

I suspect we'll see a lot more of this and it'll drive increasing debate over the next few seasons.
 
Maruco said:
What is fair is the reason the doubts can exist is because Willie has so many top class horses and he keeps them apart. He makes hurdling or chasing, trip, course, and UK or Ireland campaign decisions to actively avoid his best horses clashing wherever possible.
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I think this argument is completely bogus myself, Paul.

For one, Annie Power never had the form in the book to trouble Hurricane Fly. For two, UDS was essentially still an unknown quantity at 2m at the start of his open season, and didn't hit a big rating until he went to Auteuil. And three, it clearly made sense to go softer with Faugheen his first season in open company, until his progression forced Mullins' hand.

At a push, you could make a case for a Hurricane Fly/UDS race in the 2013/2014 season, but even then, it would be perfectly logical for Mullins to not want to over-face a young, enthusiastic, horse, by pitching him in against the best hurdler in Europe. Not when you could ruin a chasing career in the process.

The suggestion that Hurricane Fly wasn't highly-enough tried, simply because he didn't meet these three horses, is a load of old hogwash. In every race, in every season, he faced-down every horse that tried to look him in the eye. He beat multiple Grade 1 winners throughout his career; including Champion Hurdle winners, Aintree Hurdle winners, Triumph Hurdle Winners, Neptune Hurdle Winners and Supreme Novices winners.

It's about time some people woke-up, smelled the coffee, and got over the fact that just because he was never particularly impressive at Cheltenham - despite what two Champion Hurdles will tell you - he was an absolute monster of a horse, who commands a lot more respect than he gets in some quarters.
 
The only hurdler you could compare to him in the last 30 years was Istabraq.Faugheen will struggle to match his achievments.
 
To my mind being a Champion Hurdler doesn't mean you MUST win the Champion Hurdle.

Hard to argue that there's been a better 2 miles hurdler around in the last 6 years or that he has been regarded as the Champion every year during that time..

Istabraq aside he's the best I have seen since Kribensis who won the CH way back in 1990
 
Grasshopper said:
I think this argument is completely bogus myself, Paul.

For one, Annie Power never had the form in the book to trouble Hurricane Fly. For two, UDS was essentially still an unknown quantity at 2m at the start of his open season, and didn't hit a big rating until he went to Auteuil. And three, it clearly made sense to go softer with Faugheen his first season in open company, until his progression forced Mullins' hand.

At a push, you could make a case for a Hurricane Fly/UDS race in the 2013/2014 season, but even then, it would be perfectly logical for Mullins to not want to over-face a young, enthusiastic, horse, by pitching him in against the best hurdler in Europe. Not when you could ruin a chasing career in the process.

The suggestion that Hurricane Fly wasn't highly-enough tried, simply because he didn't meet these three horses, is a load of old hogwash. In every race, in every season, he faced-down every horse that tried to look him in the eye. He beat multiple Grade 1 winners throughout his career; including Champion Hurdle winners, Aintree Hurdle winners, Triumph Hurdle Winners, Neptune Hurdle Winners and Supreme Novices winners.

It's about time some people woke-up, smelled the coffee, and got over the fact that just because he was never particularly impressive at Cheltenham - despite what two Champion Hurdles will tell you - he was an absolute monster of a horse, who commands a lot more respect than he gets in some quarters.
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I don't disagree with any of that, but I understand why people do or can. The fact those races never happened will always leave an element of doubt irrespective of what you and I believe to be true.
 
Maruco said:
I don't disagree with any of that, but I understand why people do or can. The fact those races never happened will always leave an element of doubt irrespective of what you and I believe to be true.
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Again, I disagree that it leaves any element of doubt, for the reasons given earlier.

Those who buy into the "element of doubt" theory, are looking for any excuse to crab the horse, and are apparently prepared to ignore the overall balance of his form, to come to that conclusion....which makes them absolute yahoos, in my opinion.

Hurricane Fly's record speaks for itself. Trying to talk the horse down, based on make-believe events that never happened (and would have taken place in his 10yo+ twilight years anyway) is idiotic.
 
Not one who I was attached with. He clearly was very smart. Most of all his longevity deserves huge respect as it's hard enough just getting them to each gig.

Happy retirement The Fly.
 
I've never been a huge fan of hurdlers...to me its just horses that can't do the proper stuff. But that aside...no horse outwith Kauto has caught my heart and got the many hairs on my back up like The Fly. Anyone knocking his form needs meds. A gorgeous hard talented animal and all that is good about NH, and what makes it light years ahead of the whippet racing we see in the summer. They don't get up the hill tho eh!
 
Tanlic said:
To my mind being a Champion Hurdler doesn't mean you MUST win the Champion Hurdle.
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without winning it you're not a champion for that season at least. Its what The Derby once was for flat breeders, that distinction stays with the horse forever, doesn't matter if he later gets beat because the Epsom race provides the hardest test for the flat just like the Chelt with its competition, track and uphill finish provides the hardest test for the Jump champions. Hurricane Fly won it twice so thats outstanding and the best since Hardy Eustace.

Tanlic said:
Istabraq aside he's the best I have seen since Kribensis who won the CH way back in 1990
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I've probably seen better even than Istabraq, called Faugheen.

Digger said:
I've never been a huge fan of hurdlers...to me its just horses that can't do the proper stuff
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Yes and chasers are just horses not classy enough to compete against the top hurdlers..

Frankel said:
Most of all his longevity deserves huge respect as it's hard enough just getting them to each gig.
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Yes, for so many seasons to still compete in the top races makes him an exceptional horse and his longevity will only by matched by few, WPM also deserves huge credit for this and for keeping faith when all men doubted him.
 
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What did you make of his defeat in 2012 Grass?
There was a bit of chatter afterwards about HF being below par that day but to me that underestimated the fact that Ruby ( and AP for that matter) were a tad to overconfident and that ROR was beautifully trained to the minute and that it was a fine ride by Noel Fehily.
 
I was suicidal. Does that answer the question, Fonz? :D

I don't want to make excuses for the horse - he was beaten, which is fair enough. There is possible mitigation in that he'd only had the one run that season in the ICH, and wasn't quite ready-enough for the demands of the Champion Hurdle - and connections were somewhat shocked at how authoritative his Leopardstown performance looked. But on the overall balance of his form, I suspect he was either less-suited to Cheltenham than he was other tracks, or he was possibly a poor traveller.

For me, the Champion Hurdle defeats don't detract from his record, because he hammered ROR out of sight on his next start at Punchestown, and was hardly disgraced trying to give Jezki and Faugheen 4-years headstart each.
 
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Nah, Grass. He's always been a speed horse, and that Champion Hurdle was much the strongest pace he's come up against.
No coincidence, either, that all his 8 hurdle defeats came over stiff tracks or further than 2m. Maybe that's why he was such a whizz round Leopardstown?
 
Too simplistic imo, reet. Let's not forget that one of those defeats came as a 4yo, one came on his first start in open company (routinely below best on his season-opener throughout his career), three came at Cheltenham, and age (10yo+) or trip (3m) would easily account for the remainder.

Speed horses tend not to win Hattons' Grace hurdles in Soft ground against horses like Solwhit. Besides, Punchestown is plenty-stiff, and he won 3 x Morgianas and 4 x Punchestown Champion Hurdles round there. Indeed, his performances in the Rabobank Hurdle were often his best each season - moreso even than the Champion Hurdle wins, imo.

To dismiss him as no more than a speed-merchant, based on his run behind RoR alone, is bunkum, imo. Whatever the reason for his defeat that day, other theories make more sense than the pace argument, imo.
 
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Absolutely ridiculous decision.How am I meant towind up Grassy now.

Happy retirement old boy:lol:.....and a very happy retirement to Hurricane Fly a true champ
 
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