If There Was A General Election Tomorrow

I must admit to having played a game with myself as I was reading through this thread which was to predict what I thought people would vote, so far I'm about 90% right (including Kriz), now if only I could channel that into racing. :lol:

I should also say Overbruv, I most certainly wouldn't vote for any party that kept its promises!!! In fact there's a few that come to mind who I wouldn't vote for, precisely because I think they would, keep their promises.

Personally I left the Labour party years ago, and haven't always voted since as candidates that represent me rarely stand in my constituency (democracy in action). What I believe we've seen is yet another example of the UK apeing the USA, with a centerist party fighting a right wing party, which leaves the likes of myself nowhere to go. If I was looking for a socialist agenda then I could be persuaded to vote SNP or Plaid Cymru. The problem being that neither stands candidates in the South East. I did email the BBC at the last election when Alex Salmond was on, asking them to pose the question on my behalf :lol: Admittedly it was a bit silly, but had they thought about it more deeply, they might have realised that its a more subtle one than it first appears, as it opens up a whole can of worms. I actually think there's a core SNP vote in southern England which they're missing out on, as well as the abandoned socialists.

Who would I vote for? Well unless I stand myself, I won't vote.

And Kathy, I'm quite prepared to believe you. I think you'll vote conservative too :D
 
Originally posted by PDJ@Dec 6 2006, 08:04 PM
The Pro, they may not take note but I am using my democratic right to vote. It does not say anywhere I need to pick a party, so I didn't. Should I be forced to choose a party even though I don't like them?
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I think you just like wasting paper. :P
 
Of course you shouldnt be forced to vote for someone, why waste the time going to the polling place and voting? That is a ridiculous statement Paul
 
What I believe we've seen is yet another example of the UK apeing the USA, with a centerist party fighting a right wing party
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So its simply a case of "apeing the USA" and nothing to do with the appeal to the electorate?

Never understood why the old fashioned socialists with their nostalgia for power cuts, strikes, high tax and loss making nationlised companies, havent put up their own candidates.
 
Originally posted by PDJ@Dec 7 2006, 06:20 PM
Is it democracy if you are forced to choose a party?
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But on the flip side what will happen to democracy if people like you dont fill them out correctly.
 
Exactly what it supposed to happen with free will. If enough people choose this course of action, maybe politicians will start to listen to what is wrong with the political parties in this country. If not, what have I lost?
 
"But on the flip side what will happen to democracy if people like you dont fill them out correctly."

The successful party would be chosen by those who have an interest in politics. Now how dangerous would that be?
 
If enough people choose this course of action
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Which, of course, is what any valid vote also requires in order to make it worth anything amongst the millions of others. In other words, in a first past the post system, the same "you're just wasting your vote" argument could be made against any vote for any party outside the top two in the polls.
 
Evening all :). I'll almost certainly vote LD next time. I work for a Tory-run County Council whose funding has been adversely controlled and manipulated by John Prescott's mob.

Though they may claim to believe in local democracy, the Tories in Government also want to centralise all power in Whitehall. I've not seen a single meaningful proposal for the repatriation of powers to County, District and Borough Councils.

I'm also opposed to ID cards and much of the other authoritarian clothing that Labour has wrapped itself in since Sept 2001. Unfortunately, too many Tories have supported too much too often to believe Cameron's weasel words about being a "liberal conservative".

I've some time for the Green Party but where I live it will be a fight between Labour and Respect.
 
Originally posted by clivex@Dec 7 2006, 11:48 AM
What I believe we've seen is yet another example of the UK apeing the USA, with a centerist party fighting a right wing party
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So its simply a case of "apeing the USA" and nothing to do with the appeal to the electorate?

Never understood why the old fashioned socialists with their nostalgia for power cuts, strikes, high tax and loss making nationlised companies, havent put up their own candidates.
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Sorry for not responding earlier Clive, but have been doing 101 other things and just been passing through TH in the last week.

The first point you raise regarding the UK apeing the USA I find a little bit naive to be honest. It's a trend that (imo) started in the 1950's and permeates many areas of UK life now. It's part of a wider drift, and first took root in things such as popular culture, through music, films and fashion etc Increasingly it's crept into our language, even to the point where the traditionally stuffy Cambridge examination board will accept American English as being correct. I'm sure we could all think of 100's of such examples, but I'll just offer up one to try an illustrate the thing that I'm refering to. 10 years ago, I'm not sure I'd heard anyone describing something in its entirity or finality sign off by using the word "period" for instance? These type of things are largely tantamount to a creeping influence I believe. It's difficult to identify any single point of entry, but taken as a sum of its components it amounts to what I was refering to in terms of apeing the USA. More pertinant has been the socio/ economic transformation. You could argue that capitalist societies have always produced 'haves' and 'have nots' and in many respects its a necessary function of the system. Successive studies keep alighting on the same findings though, namely that this gap (as it is in the USA) is growing ever wider. A couple of areas where it manifests itself quite markedly imo, would include things such as the dumbing down of the education system, and the emergence of a significant dispossed rump of poorly educated youngsters. Other areas that come to mind, would include the explosion in drug culture and gun crime. I'm not sure therefore that as we increasingly aspire (or inadvertantly) mimick America that our political system won't evolve in due course to reflect this aspiration and changing sense of values?

Regarding your second point. Unlike some European countries I'm sure you're well aware that the UK has never had a socialist tradition, though it has periodically returned the odd Labour government, which lets not forget is a capitalist party anyway.

Personally, I've never had any problem with subsidising state industries within reason, and wasn't entirely sure what you meant on a previous post somewhere, when you seemed to suggest that the energy industry or rail industry weren't industries at all, when I pointed out the failures of privatisation to deliver a better service. You seemed to be saying that these were utilities? I suspect you were differentiating between service and manufacturing? The link is tenuous though imo. A service industry frequently needs a manufacturing sector to serve. Both are significant employers and providers of infrastructure, and manufacturing does at least have the greater capacity to generate export earnings in the national interest, a lot of service sector activity doesn't.

It's ironic that tomorrow the capitalist new labour party is scheduled to announce the withdrawl of subsidy for loss making Post Offices, which we're led to believe will result in the closure of about half the network. This is likely to hit hardest in rural Britain, but since these people don't tend to vote Labour, this won't worry them too much, which is another example of how a ruling party discriminates in its decision making process, in much the same way as the Tories would trade Scotland and the Northern England.

I assume you wholeheartedly support and applaud this move?
 
Firstly, unless you believe that the closure of post offices is being carried out simply to spite the rural electorate (like you suggested with the miners and tories) then it is not the same thing as you originally suggested at all.

As with the pits, there would appear to be a valid economic argument for the action. Whether you agree (or care) about the social impact is a different matter.

I wish you would get to the point sometimes though. Do you really believ that the political choices are foisted upon us (by "apeing" the US) or that they reflect the mood of the electorate? Frankly I feel that there is very very little desire for far left policies in thsi country and that is simply the real reason why there is little electoral representation. You pretty well acknowledge that anyway!

As for nationlisation. All i said was that i have mixed feelings aboutr Rail and water. but they still receive goverment investment anyway...
 
Having gone through the limited spectrum of the darker red socialist parties since my youth, I feel that at the present time I would vote Tory. New Labour has failed to address the problems of the poorest in our society and has sought to maintain its position by sucking up to the aspirant middle class. Not only that but the twats have bu@@ered up the education system bringing 'equality' by lowering standards.Perhaps these people are misguided but they have no idea what it is like to live on a sink estate far less how to help people who do.

Islington idiots in ivory towers maybe there are are enough of the old fashioned Tories that care,
Depressing!!
 
What I believe we've seen is yet another example of the UK apeing the USA, with a centerist party fighting a right wing party, which leaves the likes of myself nowhere to go
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Go over this again. Why was my response "naive"?

Think back to when Labour lost the eletorate...early 1980's. "Longest suicide note in history" etc.

what happened?

a group broke away and formed the SDP which became enormously popular with the electorate They lost the plot afterwards but arguably their tradition has been carried forward by New Labour

So why doesnt the far left break away and try their luck?

The far right and the greens have...

And are you suggesting that the reason why socialism is unpopular here is due to american culture? That is frankly just a little bit silly to me, although in fairness perhaps if the Soviet union had put out some of its films on tractor production at the local odeon, then things might have been different.....
 
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