I run the Executive Racing syndicates Ricko. There are no management fees , in fact it has cost me to run it ! Horses run in Executive Racing colours. Our horses are based in Oxfordshire but we are fully subscribed at the moment. If you PM me I can keep your details for next time I launch another syndicate.
Info Required On Trainer And Racing Syndicate
- Thread starter Ricko
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I run the Executive Racing syndicates Ricko. There are no management fees , in fact it has cost me to run it ! Horses run in Executive Racing colours. Our horses are based in Oxfordshire but we are fully subscribed at the moment. If you PM me I can keep your details for next time I launch another syndicate.
There's a big difference between Racing Clubs like Elite and syndicates. You can't compare the two. There's also a big difference between syndicates in which the share in the horse is leased, and those where members buy and own a share in a horse.
Membership of Elite even in the first year is less than £400, and goes down thereafter, even before a share of the prize money, so it's very good value for 20+ horses to follow mainly with top trainers; and as the Club emphasises, the main benefit is the weekly newsletter. I've been told by someone who works for Elite in a managerial position that it took Tony nine years of investment before he finally got into profit - there is quite a big breeding operation included which makes it very different from other clubs and syndicates. Yes he IS now making money from his massive investment - but it might never have happened... and has happened mainly because the home-breds have outperformed the purchased horses, by quite a margin.
I'm no longer a member by the way; I just wanted to put the record straight, as what was said above is very misleading. Elite bears no resemblance to lease-based operations like, say, Diamond Racing, Henry Ponsonby's syndicates, or Pat Eddery Racing.
Elite does run a separate syndicate-based operation which has horses with a number of trainers [inc several which don't train for the Club]; this is called Axom and they work with 12 shares per horse. The cost varies according to the price of the horse; these are their terms - and as you can see they cover every available contingency:
http://www.axom.co.uk/termsandconditions.htm
Most lease-based syndicates are quite expensive for what you get imo, but they all operate slightly differently and it's a good idea to shop around for the best deal. There are yards running mainly syndicated horses for groups of c12 owners, which are excellent, eg Clive Clive Cox and Bill Ratcliffe, both of whom charge fairly and have very good win/place ratios to runs; and others I'd not touch with a barge pole. There are also huge well-established syndicates like Million In Mind which work very well by buying a better class of horse; these are always sold at the end of their first season.
People going into syndicates have to realise that the management has to cost in the likelihood of vets' bills, and they carry all the 'additional' expenses like boxing, shoeing, and entries, jockey's fees etc etc ON TOP OF the training fees. All these things add up. I've belonged to four syndicates of various sizes and to three or four different Racing Clubs, so I do have a bit of experience in these things!
I certainly wouldn't buy into a set-up which is paying a cleb for endorsements, that would set all my alarm bells ringing! I'd also add that going into an open-ended ownership syndicate with people you barely know is asking for trouble. The on-going saga of problems in one syndicate I know of with a well-known horse is a case in point.....
If you do get involved with unknown people, it's best to have a 'one season' leasehold arrangement, at least for your first foray - and pref with a set-up which has been personally recommended.
Membership of Elite even in the first year is less than £400, and goes down thereafter, even before a share of the prize money, so it's very good value for 20+ horses to follow mainly with top trainers; and as the Club emphasises, the main benefit is the weekly newsletter. I've been told by someone who works for Elite in a managerial position that it took Tony nine years of investment before he finally got into profit - there is quite a big breeding operation included which makes it very different from other clubs and syndicates. Yes he IS now making money from his massive investment - but it might never have happened... and has happened mainly because the home-breds have outperformed the purchased horses, by quite a margin.
I'm no longer a member by the way; I just wanted to put the record straight, as what was said above is very misleading. Elite bears no resemblance to lease-based operations like, say, Diamond Racing, Henry Ponsonby's syndicates, or Pat Eddery Racing.
Elite does run a separate syndicate-based operation which has horses with a number of trainers [inc several which don't train for the Club]; this is called Axom and they work with 12 shares per horse. The cost varies according to the price of the horse; these are their terms - and as you can see they cover every available contingency:
http://www.axom.co.uk/termsandconditions.htm
Most lease-based syndicates are quite expensive for what you get imo, but they all operate slightly differently and it's a good idea to shop around for the best deal. There are yards running mainly syndicated horses for groups of c12 owners, which are excellent, eg Clive Clive Cox and Bill Ratcliffe, both of whom charge fairly and have very good win/place ratios to runs; and others I'd not touch with a barge pole. There are also huge well-established syndicates like Million In Mind which work very well by buying a better class of horse; these are always sold at the end of their first season.
People going into syndicates have to realise that the management has to cost in the likelihood of vets' bills, and they carry all the 'additional' expenses like boxing, shoeing, and entries, jockey's fees etc etc ON TOP OF the training fees. All these things add up. I've belonged to four syndicates of various sizes and to three or four different Racing Clubs, so I do have a bit of experience in these things!
I certainly wouldn't buy into a set-up which is paying a cleb for endorsements, that would set all my alarm bells ringing! I'd also add that going into an open-ended ownership syndicate with people you barely know is asking for trouble. The on-going saga of problems in one syndicate I know of with a well-known horse is a case in point.....
If you do get involved with unknown people, it's best to have a 'one season' leasehold arrangement, at least for your first foray - and pref with a set-up which has been personally recommended.
Shadow Leader
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Yes, I'm aware that Elite is a racing club and Ponsonby etc run syndicates.
However they both work with the same principle ~ ie getting other people to pay for their hobby, so they not only have racehorses run in their names and colours for nowt, they make a profit on top too!
I still find it hard to believe that so many members of Elite actually think they "own" the club's horses - they don't.
It's also worth pointing out that Axom's syndicates are not all 12 per horse - in fact I've not come across many with so few shares. Their syndicates can (and have in the past) consist of anything from 12 to c.20 people.
However they both work with the same principle ~ ie getting other people to pay for their hobby, so they not only have racehorses run in their names and colours for nowt, they make a profit on top too!
I still find it hard to believe that so many members of Elite actually think they "own" the club's horses - they don't.
It's also worth pointing out that Axom's syndicates are not all 12 per horse - in fact I've not come across many with so few shares. Their syndicates can (and have in the past) consist of anything from 12 to c.20 people.
As I've already pointed out, it took NINE YEARS for Elite to get into profit, which was entirely as a result of the breeding operation [and thanks to homebred Soviet Song bumping up the membership numbers] so your comments are inappropriate. It's not remotely like Henry's syndicates!
People seem to forget that for every few horses which get to the track, there are others which don't or which take long periods off, with consequent huge vets bills. Elite has had its share of all that in the last few years; and paying for 20 horses in training, many purchased, and several mares at stud doesn't come cheap. Good luck to the man, he's given an awful lot of people enormous pleasure.
I've never met anyone in Elite who thinks they own the horses, and I know a lot of other members. That doesn't stop people getting attached to them, esp the homebreds which members follow in weekly reports from conception so to speak! - and visit each summer as foals and yearlings.
I've had notices about the Axom syndicates in my post every week for the last two years at least, and lots of my chums have joined them, so I'm probably in a position to say what they consist of! They ceased functioning for a few years 'as Axom' since all the syndicates - always of 12 owners - were based at Clive Cox's whilst he was the main Club trainer, and had names based on the Beechdown yard. When he broke with the club, Axom was revived, but on the same basis as with Clive ie 12 person syndicates {there may be a couple bigger ones, but I don't think so}. They currently have horses with about 10 trainers at a rough guess, inc Fanshawe, Charlton, Balding, Given, Camacho and Cole.
People seem to forget that for every few horses which get to the track, there are others which don't or which take long periods off, with consequent huge vets bills. Elite has had its share of all that in the last few years; and paying for 20 horses in training, many purchased, and several mares at stud doesn't come cheap. Good luck to the man, he's given an awful lot of people enormous pleasure.
I've never met anyone in Elite who thinks they own the horses, and I know a lot of other members. That doesn't stop people getting attached to them, esp the homebreds which members follow in weekly reports from conception so to speak! - and visit each summer as foals and yearlings.
I've had notices about the Axom syndicates in my post every week for the last two years at least, and lots of my chums have joined them, so I'm probably in a position to say what they consist of! They ceased functioning for a few years 'as Axom' since all the syndicates - always of 12 owners - were based at Clive Cox's whilst he was the main Club trainer, and had names based on the Beechdown yard. When he broke with the club, Axom was revived, but on the same basis as with Clive ie 12 person syndicates {there may be a couple bigger ones, but I don't think so}. They currently have horses with about 10 trainers at a rough guess, inc Fanshawe, Charlton, Balding, Given, Camacho and Cole.
Shadow Leader
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In the interests of accuracy, I'd like to point out that not one of the syndicates available on Axom's website has 12 shares available - they are all 15 or 17.
Look, I'm only interested in pointing out what is in fact correct, rather than let people digest the inaccuracies that are being posted. I am also in a position to know about the Axom syndicates since 1) I can read and 2) I was heavily involved with at least 2 or 3 horses owned by Axom, including dealing with all of their owners - more than 12 in some of them.
Look, I'm only interested in pointing out what is in fact correct, rather than let people digest the inaccuracies that are being posted. I am also in a position to know about the Axom syndicates since 1) I can read and 2) I was heavily involved with at least 2 or 3 horses owned by Axom, including dealing with all of their owners - more than 12 in some of them.
Shadow Leader
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I'm also struggling to see what is "inappropriate" about pointing out the small fact that Elite enables Tony Hill to not only have a string of racehorses and broodmares financed, it makes him a profit also!
Going on what I know about Elite (which is not inconsiderable as I had quite a lot to do with them in their early days) I cannot believe for a second that it took them nine years to make any money. For starters the sheer amount of phonelines they had that members had to ring for anything and everything (including to find out how a horse was expected to run) must have been a right little earner.
Going on what I know about Elite (which is not inconsiderable as I had quite a lot to do with them in their early days) I cannot believe for a second that it took them nine years to make any money. For starters the sheer amount of phonelines they had that members had to ring for anything and everything (including to find out how a horse was expected to run) must have been a right little earner.
rorydelargy
At the Start
It's perfectly possible that it took Elite years to show an operating profit if they were ploughing their income into buying new stock and setting up their breeding operation. It doesn't alter the fact that the business model was a profitable one.
It's also a bit of a moot point whether the fact that whoever operates a syndicate or racing club makes a tidy profit should make it a bad idea to be part of such a venture. Elite has been phenomenally successful because it's members feel an involvement with the horses which is not commensurete with their actual financial commitment. Shadow Leader would argue that many of the people involved are really overstaing their true involvement and are being ripped off, but if they think differently then who can blame them?
You're too modest Cantoris.
I think if I'd had the success you had, I'd be crowing about it [/b][/quote]I'm not the type to do that and prefer the horses to do the talking, which they have done. I think one of the advantages Winning Ways has is its close relationship with Colm and this is something I will certainly crow about. He's got a very good eye for a horse and in these days where you can trust very few people with your hard earned crust, I think that is very important.
And he may not have made a profit but revenue less costs equals profit and if he was drawing a healthy salary his operation may not have been making a profit. I know it might be nit picking but I cannot believe it took nine years before he got anything back from it. How did he live for nine years?
Tony's principal business has always been Elite Registrations - he invented the business of selling car numberplates and got very rich at it. He also has other businesses, I think Collectus is one - it sells racing, motoring and other memorabilia
The Elite phone lines are run at cost ie standard BT rates.
I really don't think SL that being a stable lass in a couple of yards which trained for Elite gives you the kind of insight into which being a member for 6 years gives you. You never seem to let go any opportunity to knock the Club in spite of never having been a member, and you clearly understand very little about how it operates. A few of my pals in Elite have been members since its inception btw, when the membership was a lot smaller, and the horses cheap and cheerful.
I've no doubt anyone who doesn't believe it took that long for Tony to get into profit can check the records at Companies House. He planned it for the long term, took a big risk, and his investment has paid off, what's to sneer at? Anyone who feels they are being ripped off - and 15,000 members don't think they are being - is free to leave. The fact Tony now has a broodmare band and other horses worth millions doesn't detract form the value the members get from their small investment - quite the contrary!
The Elite phone lines are run at cost ie standard BT rates.
I really don't think SL that being a stable lass in a couple of yards which trained for Elite gives you the kind of insight into which being a member for 6 years gives you. You never seem to let go any opportunity to knock the Club in spite of never having been a member, and you clearly understand very little about how it operates. A few of my pals in Elite have been members since its inception btw, when the membership was a lot smaller, and the horses cheap and cheerful.
I've no doubt anyone who doesn't believe it took that long for Tony to get into profit can check the records at Companies House. He planned it for the long term, took a big risk, and his investment has paid off, what's to sneer at? Anyone who feels they are being ripped off - and 15,000 members don't think they are being - is free to leave. The fact Tony now has a broodmare band and other horses worth millions doesn't detract form the value the members get from their small investment - quite the contrary!
K
Kathy
Guest
If the partnership or syndicate does what it says on the tin, then why shouldn't someone make money out of it? It's very often a business anyway - and that's the whole purpose of running a business.
Some syndicates are set up more as a hobby than a business in which case I can fully understand why some may say they take nothing from it. Very often any "profit" goes on to to purchase new horses if the horses are leased.
I have been involved in racehorse ownership for 13 years. There are some very good syndicates around that are well run and give people a taster of what it is like to "own" a racehorse. Many people go from these syndicates (like I did) to own horses of their own. It is a great introduction for many and if people are happy paying a small amount to be part of a club, and enjoy it for what it is, good luck to them and good luck to the person who was willing to put the money up in the first place. If he (as in Elite's case) has since made money out of it, even better. There was clearly a chance he would have lost his investment if the business plan was not a sound one.
Some syndicates are set up more as a hobby than a business in which case I can fully understand why some may say they take nothing from it. Very often any "profit" goes on to to purchase new horses if the horses are leased.
I have been involved in racehorse ownership for 13 years. There are some very good syndicates around that are well run and give people a taster of what it is like to "own" a racehorse. Many people go from these syndicates (like I did) to own horses of their own. It is a great introduction for many and if people are happy paying a small amount to be part of a club, and enjoy it for what it is, good luck to them and good luck to the person who was willing to put the money up in the first place. If he (as in Elite's case) has since made money out of it, even better. There was clearly a chance he would have lost his investment if the business plan was not a sound one.
Shadow Leader
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Headstrong, you are assuming again - and yet again being excruciatingly patronising along with it. "Being a stable lass in a couple of yards which trained for Elite" is patent nonsense, and my knowledge of Elite goes far deeper than that. Not that you'd actually know what involvement I've had with them as, far as I know, you haven't been perched on my shoulder for half of my life and you know hardly anything about me. So quit now with the condescending guesswork.
If the people who pay to join Elite like what they get out of it then fair enough. I perceive it as quite a large con, but that is a personal point of view. As I have said before, it also gets a bit daft when the people who belong to the club start assuming they "own" the club horses.
If the people who pay to join Elite like what they get out of it then fair enough. I perceive it as quite a large con, but that is a personal point of view. As I have said before, it also gets a bit daft when the people who belong to the club start assuming they "own" the club horses.