Irish Handicap Hurdlers

You say that Barker has been rated on the ability he has shown in public. Well he has also been rated on the ability he has shown in public by the Irish handicapper. The two are different. One is wrong.

Psycho and Victram are a case in point.

The Irish handicapper rates Victram at 124 and Psycho at 120.

Yet the British guy rates Psycho at 1lb superior to Victram.

I have said it before and I will say it again, he gives the newcomers a hard time, and the established horses a chance.
 
Without knowing all the details, it's possible the Irish handicapper ignores the form of horses that don't finish a race, as in Psycho's case last time out. The BHB handicapper has rated him as having won but he can only estimate by how far.

I reckon when the likes of Pearse winners end up proving 20-30lbs ahead of their Irish rating while the likes of a TGT winner ends up proving only 10lbs or so ahead, I don't think it's too hard to figure out whose assessments are more realistic.
 
No, the irish horses shouldnt be treated easier by the english handicapper. They should be treated fairly. It appears at the moment that all Irish horses are being handicapped simply becuase of their nation - the peirse winner having 20-30lbs in hand beign the broad brush stroke type reaction. However, if having them handicapped to such an extent that they all finish tailed off - Jayo, Roman Villa ran in both the TGT and the Pierse and the english handicapper can handicap Barker that way. Neither of that pair have franked the form to any extent and yet are handicapped to the hilt. Teh second and third in the pierse have been beaten since.

There is a fine handiap in Fairyhouse next week with Barker and of course, no English horse has an earthly hope of winning an irish handicap, but whatever makes the Cheltenham festival handicaps more exiting and more anticiapted is somehat lost.
 
I don't think that should happen...............have the handicappers got crystal balls?!?!

How many times have we seen horses not finding what was expected in a finish?
 
On balance, I'd conclude they more often find plenty.

So the IRish handicapper did treat Psycho as the winner. I think that's fair. I really don't see that the BHB handicapper treats Irish horses unfairly.

There was a case earlier this year when P Nicholls was complaining about the handicapper's teratment of one of his hurdlers. Lo and behold, the horse hosed up under its new mark.

Don't forget too that the Irish were lifting a number of h'cap hurdles in the earlier part of this season while the handicapper was still unable to correlate the form either side of the water. No-one was compaining then.
 
I reckon when the likes of Pearse winners end up proving 20-30lbs ahead of their Irish rating while the likes of a TGT winner ends up proving only 10lbs or so ahead, I don't think it's too hard to figure out whose assessments are more realistic.
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Really? Well I reckon that looking at the last ten winners of both races will be revealing. I ask the question - was the winner 20lb ahead of the handicapper when winning?

Pierse
2008 Barker
2007 Spring The Que No
2006 Studmaster Probably
2005 Essex Yes
2004 Dromlease Express No
2003 Xenophon Yes
2002 Adamant Approach Yes
2001 Grinkov No
2000 Mantles Prince Debateable. I say no.
1999 Archive Footage No
1998 Graphic Equaliser No

So out of the last 10 winners of the Pierse, there have only been three winners who are 20lb ahead of the handicapper.

Tote
2008 Wingman
2007 Heathcote No
2005 Essex (IRE) Probably not by this stage
2004 Geos No
2003 Spirit Leader Yes
2002 Copeland. Debateable. I say no
2001 Landing Light Yes
2000 Geos Yes
1999 Decoupage Yes
1998 Sharpical No
1997 Make A Stand Yes

So I make it five winners who have been 20lb ahead of the handicap proper when winning the Totesport.
 
I wouldn't know to be honest, Bar.

But any list like that is going to be accused of being subjective to re-inforce your argument.

Just an observation and not meant to wind you up, 'onest! :D
 
"Don't forget too that the Irish were lifting a number of h'cap hurdles in the earlier part of this season while the handicapper was still unable to correlate the form either side of the water. No-one was compaining then."

And you arent willing to accept the point that the handicapper hasnt gone too far the other way now when correlating the form. The idea that the handicapper ignores the finish in a race to explain the discrepancy is a little silly. I think it would be a good thing for Irish racing if the handicappers stayed at home to be honest.
 
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