Is Chamberlin Right?

The only meeting I go to in the UK every year is the festival in March. Even comparing it to punchestown in May or Leopardstown in December, the amount of drunk and disorderly "non racing" crowd is incredible.

The "non racing" crowd at the big Irish meetings seem to be generally a smaller proportion of the overall crowd and much less drunk/abusive/obnoxious than at the festival.

Often wondered is this a reflection just on the scale of the festival now or UK racing more generally??

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littlelad said:
The only meeting I go to in the UK every year is the festival in March. Even comparing it to punchestown in May or Leopardstown in December, the amount of drunk and disorderly "non racing" crowd is incredible.

The "non racing" crowd at the big Irish meetings seem to be generally a smaller proportion of the overall crowd and much less drunk/abusive/obnoxious than at the festival.

Often wondered is this a reflection just on the scale of the festival now or UK racing more generally??

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A reflection of the behaviour of the twentysomethings in the UK I'd say Littlelad. Go out to any UK town or city on a Friday and Saturday night and it's full of drunken idiots who got tanked up before they've even gone out. Trouble is easy to see wherever you go after midnight. I come over to Ireland semi-regularly and whilst it's not without its problems I rarely see problems on the same scale. In fact the last twice I was in Dublin there was trouble and both times it was English stag parties!

Finding somewhere decent to go for a decent night out in the UK these days usually means going away from the centres, or going out early and coming home early.

With regards the Festival. I've not stayed in Cheltenham itself for a long time. I usually stay in Stratford on Avon which is lively enough, but much more low key. Cheltenham town centre is too mental for me these days. 10 deep at any decent bar doesn't do it for me. And getting into a decent restaurant is hard enough and when you do, service and standards are much lower than any other time of the year.
 
Maruco said:
I agree with the thrust of what you're saying Nick apart from Chamberlain and Chapman themselves. I reckon it's a personal taste thing. For me I like them both in the roles they're in. In my opinion it works. In addition I can't imagine Chapman in the anchor role. He's just a shade too maverick for comfort.
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You view it through the prism of a guy who has been racing for years though, Paul. If it's new blood that's needed, someone like Chappers is much more likely to enthuse them, imho.


But it's not just about the racecourses. I also think we as racefans and racegoers also have a responsibility. Collectively we are able to make the biggest difference. I've never taken anyone racing that hasn't thoroughly enjoyed it and not wanted to go again. Surely therefore the best way to introduce someone to racing is for them to go with a racing fan. What better way to find your way around, get the most out of the experience, and debunk the racing language.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. It's all about accessibility, and the option to watch racing on TV is self-evidently more accessible than going racing.......though I concede the best way to get an education is from someone already immersed in the game.

I've often thought the best way to encourage this is for racecourses to offer first time discounts, referral discounts on admissions, and to add in loyalty schemes added to regualr attendance at the races. It wouldn't take a genius to get a good programme in place. Plus there is a big benefit of picking up contact details so information can be pushed out, and promotions and discounts can be offered.
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Again, it's about accessibility. If you live in Edinburgh (where most of the handsome, debonaire and wily racing-fans live), you basically have Musselburgh. If you want to go further afield, you will have a minimum outlay of about £70 (trains, petrol, access to course), and that's before you have even had a bet. Facilities on-course - as both you and Colm have pointed-out - are somewhat basic for the Tatts race-goer, and can actively discourage further attendance for a newbie, imo. Who wants to stand in the cold for five hours, to watch horses run around a field, doing their brains whilst they go about it? Only the hardiest or those with a genuine, emerging interest that's been piqued in another way, would stand for it, imo.

I appreciate it's a little different if you live within easy travelling-distance of a Grade 1 track with Grade 1 facilities, but that does limit your new market somewhat.

Basically, there are no easy-answers.......which is the part that Chamberlain appears to have missed in his crie-de-couer.
 
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The missus went to a concert/race night at Hamilton (the racing was inevitably low quality - some would call it shite). Her verdict was that she didn't enjoy the racing (because her first couple of bets lost) but did enjoy drinking with her pals and watching the band.

I'm not sure if there is something to take from that or not.
 
Maruco said:
With regards the Festival. I've not stayed in Cheltenham itself for a long time. I usually stay in Stratford on Avon which is lively enough, but much more low key. Cheltenham town centre is too mental for me these days. 10 deep at any decent bar doesn't do it for me. And getting into a decent restaurant is hard enough and when you do, service and standards are much lower than any other time of the year.
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All THers are welcome to come back to Digger and my gaff in Prestbury, straight after racing during the Festival..........as long as you come armed with the required minimum amount of contraband. :lol:
 
simmo said:
The missus went to a concert/race night at Hamilton (the racing was inevitably low quality - some would call it shite). Her verdict was that she didn't enjoy the racing (because her first couple of bets lost) but did enjoy drinking with her pals and watching the band.

I'm not sure if there is something to take from that or not.
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What I take from this, simmo, is that you had far too much class to lower yourself to going to Hamilton for the races.

Good boy.
 
Grasshopper said:
All THers are welcome to come back to Digger and my gaff in Prestbury, straight after racing during the Festival..........as long as you come armed with the required minimum amount of contraband. :lol:
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In Diggers case I presume he'll want to select which country they come from :lol:
 
Good debate going here.

Firstly, I was sad to hear Ed Walker in The Post a few months ago critisising behaviour at the Craig David concert down at one of the southern tracks. I like this artist, I actually have a few of his hits from the 90's on vinyl somewhere in a dark cupboard.

Secondly, my first experiences of race going were to places like Gosforth aged 12 and the Epsom Derby aged 16 (saw a great horse this day - Galileo). My point is, I perceived racecourses as friendly places when I first started going.

I believed I was privelleged to be there, especially for a young lad from the bricks of a council estate in inner city London.
However, the last few times I've gone racing there is a negative aura around. People so concerned with what their wearing and how much beer they can get down their necks.

I think it can be argued sensible, modest, race goers almost now appear in the minority, which I didn't perceive to be the case when I first started going. I can't put my finger on why I feel this.

Lastly, I liked racing as a youngun, totally opposed to most of my friends growing up, because it offered a form of escapism from my little life growing up as a teenager in the inner city. Opposites attract and all that. I guess overall I just feel racing is going through a weird, somewhat mad phase of change and dilemma, like the world at large, in the 21st century.

The banter you used to get in bookies is replaced by punters in financial depression and a handful of old men. The machines have created a stigma around betting, and racing has become tarnished too, even though most problem gambling is on the machines.

One of the best parts i'm finding is actually linking up with people I've chatted to on here. Other than that, half the time I prefer being at home watching what's going on on the telle than I do going to the track!

So I'm saying, keep the concerts but make love not war when having a pint or two!
 
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Grasshopper said:
All THers are welcome to come back to Digger and my gaff in Prestbury, straight after racing during the Festival..........as long as you come armed with the required minimum amount of contraband. :lol:
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Have you started to dig the pit in the basement yet or do yiz leave that till later?
 
Maruco said:
...the younger generation seem to be less and less able to handle drink.
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This raises further social issues. Drink, like drugs, is generally much stronger than in our 'wild' days. A 3% abv beer was deemed 'good stuff' back in the day when it was 15p for a pint (and I recall it being cheaper than that). Nowadays a lot of the fashionable bottled beers are deemed weak if they're as low as 4%.

And cocktails are more fashionable now, especially among the herries.

Maybe the upcoming alcohol tax [in Scotland] will have a minor impact.
 
1. Get rid of enclosure separation (especially in Britain) and the hi-viz clowns that police the accesses.
2. Increase places to sit and rest and converse by a factor of 10.
3. Pick a more intelligent point on the price curve to determine entrance fees (ref: Longchamp, Arc day)
4. Greater variety of foods and post 1977 menus
5. Easily available shuttle transport to transport hubs.
6. Feature race is 2nd last on card.
7. Unsecured and free WiFi
 
i remember when The Phoenix Park reopened in 1980s they had Robert Hall on the on course tv screens between races doing what he now does on RTE Racing.
A country lad in UCD I thought this was the future.
I have never had Festival Radio in my ear at Cheltenham but wonder of it's use.
Communication is the key I think; at least it is for me.
Go racing and you can miss the fun on TV , the interviews , the replays, close ups and what have you but meet and mix and share stories with friend and stranger.
Stay at home now and you miss the horses, the paddock, the atmosphere as they countdown to the main event.
Re the newer crowds racing it really came home to me at Cheltenham Festival this year; the atmosphere was quite dull until Ruby started winning on Thursday despite the usual wonderful racing.
 
edgt said:
I have never had Festival Radio in my ear at Cheltenham but wonder of it's use.
Communication is the key I think; at least it is for me.
Go racing and you can miss the fun on TV , the interviews , the replays, close ups and what have you but meet and mix and share stories with friend and stranger.
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Good point, edgt.

Watching snooker on TV, it's obvious a lot of the spectators are listening to the TV commentary. I have no idea how much that might cost.

The chances are that racing being the overcharging, money-grubbing, bookies-run industry that it is, they'd double the cost of entry to provide such a facility.
 
Maruco said:
You say this based on what? This certainly hasn't been my experience. Granted that is the case with some, but certainly not the majority as you suggest. Wide sweeping comments like this GG are part of the problem. People take them at face value and then jump on the bandwagon.

As I said in my previous post, would we prefer racecourses to take the initiative or close down? I'd swear that some people think only the Grade 1 tracks exist.
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Based on MY previous experience at plenty of racecourses over decades of going racing and friends who are regular race goers and actually agreed by a senior member of the BHA who was a speaker on a course I recently attended, although he didn't quite put it that way so I think am entitled to an opinion. On a previous thread with a similar theme I have stated this view before; KG/QE day at Ascot has been totally ruined by the allowance of 'picnics' to be laid out by the rail. I don't seriously believe that meetings like that really need to try and attract people who aren't interested in the actual racing. Some of them need to review their ticket prices as some are ridiculously expensive for a 6 race card, as well as £5 for a racecard as charged at Sandown on Saturday. They can have music and picnics all they like but keep those people away from those that actually want to watch and have an interest in the horses.
 
Grasshopper said:
Racing offers an intellectual puzzle that has absolutely no parallel in any other sport. Any comparison with football is therefore invalidated at source. You cannot dumb-down horse-race form into easily-digestible chunks. It takes effort (and time) to understand form, and the myriad inputs that go into weighing-up a horse-race.
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I'd say the puzzle it offers is unparalleled by any other form of activity, sports or economics, etc. There are no rules to predict how a horse will run on the day, the unknowns of his fitness, jockey, bad luck in running, what form are his adversaries in, and a million other factors.

Thats why the only winners at this game are those who after many years of watching/betting on horse racing can finally spot the value and aren't afraid to have a proper bet even on the outsider of a field aka going against the majority's view when they consider its the case. Here lies the problem, because in order to do that you need to get the bets on and the bookies don't allow any kind of winning. They've closed accounts of casual punters on other sports just for betting once on horse racing. The bookies are the major problem of horse racing, we know they're winning hundred of millions but they don't allow 50-100 quid bets and of course regular folks when they try to get on and see they're blocked its infuriating and never look back.
 
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