Jamie Codd

H

HawkWing

At the Start
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Mar 17, 2009
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Is he the best jockey currently riding?

Twice in the last two days, he wouldn't let horses get beaten. Reminiscent of the very very best.
 
He's getting to pick the best horses but at least he isn't making the mistakes I've seen him make in the past.
 
That's a bit cheap, Luke, even for you.

He's cherrypicking rides in cherrypicked races. That's a whole different ball game to regular open races day in day out on horses with chances reflected in double-digit prices.

To suggest he is the best jockey out there is well wide of the mark and pretty much an insult to the top pros.
 
If he can choose Le Breuil over Ok Corral, Ballyward or Discorama, he is in the wrong profession. Codd I remember saying Labaik was the best horse he sat on the year of the Supreme.

Him cherrypicking is an insult and not backed up by any analysis. Interesting he said he felt his job was to educate Envoi Allen for Davy Russell and Jack Kennedy to ride next year.
 
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HawkWing said:
If he can choose Le Breuil over Ok Corral, Ballyward or Discorama, he is in the wrong profession. Codd I remember saying Labaik was the best horse he sat on the year of the Supreme.

Him cherrypicking is an insult and not backed up by any analysis. Interesting he said he felt his job was to educate Envoi Allen for Davy Russell and Jack Kennedy to ride next year.
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Now you're cherrypicking your points, HW (which I don't mind, just pointing it out).

Would he have had the choice of Ballyward or Discorama? I'm not sure. Derek O'Connor (not in the same league as Codd imo) was already promised OK Corral so he was effectively actively looking for the what he thought was the best left available. All credit for chasing after the ride on Le Breuil, absolutely, and he's maybe an excellent judge in that respect too but I still think it's a step too far to say he's the best jockey out there.

Edit - Back in November I was saying I felt Sam Waley-Cohen was about the best jockey out there at presenting a horse at a fence. I stand by that but there's no way I would argue he was the best jockey out there. I still prefer to see him on a horse I've backed than many other pros.
 
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Jamie Codd far from cherry picking would have been riding champagne classic had Elliot entered him. It was only after he was withdrawn that he was left without a ride. There is no jockey, amateur or professional, that would give me more confidence coming down the hill. To suggest he is on the best horses in the best races is nonsense. You know they could put up a pro on his champion bumper winners, bit for some reason they don't.
 
To me, he's a horseman first and a jockey second. Same with Nico, I guess. And he doesn't have to struggle with his weight, which helps.
 
Strikes me Codd is probably no different from any other top jockey. The good rides come to him, rather than him looking for them. Not sure that's the same thing as cherry-picking, tbh.
 
HawkWing said:
You know they could put up a pro on his champion bumper winners, bit for some reason they don't.
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Because they wanted to educate him as well. A pro might have taken a win-at-all-costs approach but the horse was entitled to win and could afford to be educated en route. I don't bet seriously in bumpers let alone at short prices but I thought he just needed to run his race to win yesterday and that's how it went. It was a good ride but any decent jockey could have won on him.
 
Cherrypicking might not be the right word. But no doubt plenty of trainers with fancies will have contacted him to persuade him on to their horse so he would be able to pick from the best of those offered to him, which would have had decent chances regardless of who rode them.
 
Desert Orchid said:
That's a bit cheap, Luke, even for you.

He's cherrypicking rides in cherrypicked races. That's a whole different ball game to regular open races day in day out on horses with chances reflected in double-digit prices.

To suggest he is the best jockey out there is well wide of the mark and pretty much an insult to the top pros.
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Since 2014/15 season -7 wins from 19 rides at the festival -37% strike rate -36.50 profit at level stakes to 1 point.I'm sure he has made mistakes but it would be miserable in the extreme to dwell on his mistakes in the context of his overall record.
By the way you made a statement about the amended result at Sandown last Saturday costing the industry a couple of grand and ran away when I called you on it -I can tell you two things 1) it cost Paddy Power €300K and 2) it cost Franco Hughes standing at Kirkistown point to point €900.
 
Yes, he's a good jockey. I've never denied that. At the festival he's one of the go-to guys especially for the amateur races so his strike should be good. I'm not arguing against that. I didn't think I was dwelling on his mistakes, just trying to be balanced in terms of the argument that he was the best jockey around.

Yes, I did question the impact of the Sandown situation but you didn't call me out on it. You simply made a childish remark which I didn't dignify with a response.

I can see where this is going so I'm putting you on ignore. I don't have time for impolite people.
 
LUKE said:
By the way you made a statement about the amended result at Sandown last Saturday costing the industry a couple of grand and ran away when I called you on it -I can tell you two things 1) it cost Paddy Power €300K and 2) it cost Franco Hughes standing at Kirkistown point to point €900.
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It cost me about £520 which is far more fu*cking important.
 
He is clearly very good and that is reflected by the clamour owners and trainers out into getting him on-board

But it's not fair to say he is the best around. He can afford to be selective and he isn't doing it day in day out in the public spotlight to be fairly compared
 
I repeat my feeling that I wouldn't swap him for ANYONE riding. That to me is equivalent - the 'being in the argument' is enough. There is no actual best around to be pedantic about it.
 
Not sure on which thread I mentioned it before so will piggyback this one.

The best amateurs are like good pros but the lesser ones are serious penalties on a horse. Shantou Flyer with a decent jockey on it would have won the Foxhunters as easily as I'd anticipated. He wasn't helped by worse jockeys around him making things difficult but the difference in the way Maxwell presented the horse at his fences compared with Sam W-C on Road To Rome was stark.

If I'd backed Ucello Conti, which to me was the only danger, I'd have been disgusted at the ride he got. He looked a complete non-trier. I wonder if he's in the Topham.

As I've been typing the brother has been on the phone in a rage for the same reason.
 
Not sure what you mean, HW, in all honesty and I do mean in all honesty. The card I worked from doesn't have a jockey on UC so I have no idea who ended up on it. I presume it was a less in-demand jockey than the Codd/O'Connors of this world.

Katie Walsh was a good jockey in the same way that Bryony Frost and Lizzie Kelly are good but she got Wonderful Charm very badly wrong on the day.

Geraghty has been riding brilliantly this week, by the way.

On the original thread where I mentioned SWC - I think it was around the time he won on The Young Master in November - it was to comment on how the ones he rides tend meet just about every fence spot on. He's a genuine positive for me on staying chasers but he may have gone a little too fast on RTR today. Either that or the horse just didn't stay but I don't think the winner came from far off the pace.
 
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How close had you followed Hazel Hill's form to be so sure that Shantou Flyer would beat Ucello Conti in this race? My guess is you have, at most, seen one race. The punt on the horse was more knowledgeable than yours and your brother's judgement but of course conspiracies are everywhere. Ucello Conti is always overrated and anyone who saw him win at Thurles would know how poor he is. In fact, he ran just about to form with Coastal Tiep on his Navan run. Tell your brother to take it like a man.
 
Everything that happens in the race just confirms your judgement rather than accepting that you were wrong, overestimated some form and underestimated others.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Not sure on which thread I mentioned it before so will piggyback this one.

The best amateurs are like good pros but the lesser ones are serious penalties on a horse. Shantou Flyer with a decent jockey on it would have won the Foxhunters as easily as I'd anticipated. He wasn't helped by worse jockeys around him making things difficult but the difference in the way Maxwell presented the horse at his fences compared with Sam W-C on Road To Rome was stark.

If I'd backed Ucello Conti, which to me was the only danger, I'd have been disgusted at the ride he got. He looked a complete non-trier. I wonder if he's in the Topham.

As I've been typing the brother has been on the phone in a rage for the same reason.
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Pretty much how I saw it. Don't really want to go in on a amateur though. Lost half a length to a length every fence. Way he was riding I thought the horse was finished from about 4 out. Then stayed on up hill.

Also didn't want it to sound like pocket talk, especially when winning trainer is held in high regard.

Cht'bello has saved my festival. Thank God for yesterday and that horse. Tuesday really did me in, and bloody Walsh on Benie.
 
As it happens I backed Shantou Flyer at 14s ante post, and I understand that Maxwell is a 10lb penalty against the best. I did this knowing how poor the Irish form was and thought he would grind away. In hindsight, it would have been interesting if he took on Road to Rome at the top of the hill, but 99 times out of 100, Hazel Hill wins the race. By more than a small margin the best horse in the race, who had more class then the rest.
 
HawkWing said:
Everything that happens in the race just confirms your judgement rather than accepting that you were wrong, overestimated some form and underestimated others.
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I can't agree with that, HW. Shantou Flyer went up to 157 for finishing second to Coo Star Sivola in last year's Ultima, at which time he was still improving. Hazel Hill came into the race rated just 139. That's not my estimation of the form. It's the official handicapper's.
 
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