Jump Horses Of The Decade - RPR

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RP has a pull out today on the top jump horses.

Top 25 performers on Racing Post ratings 2000-2009

Master Minded – 186
Kauto Star – 185
Denman – 184
Moscow Flyer – 182
Azertyuiop – 179
Well Chief – 179
First Gold – 178
Best Mate – 178
Exotic Dancer – 178
Voy Por Ustedes – 178
Neptune Collonges – 178
Gloria Victus – 177
Kicking King – 177
Madison Du Berlais – 177
Limestone Lad – 176
See More Business – 176
Deanos Beano – 176
Baracouda – 176
Big Bucks – 176
Iris’s Gift – 176
Dato Star – 175
Florida Pearl – 174
Beef Or Salmon – 174
Inglis Drever – 174
Our Vic - 174
 
A lot more realistic than Timeform re Kicking King and Best Mate

Master Minded and VPU both rated at least half a stone to high.

I think they underrated the Moscow Flyer/Azerty/Well Chief form as well.
 
Are these adjusted ratings, viewed in hindsight, or are they they ratings they gave the performances at the time?

Initial thoughts are:

Master Minded is too high by about 6lbs
Moscow Flyer too low by a couple of lbs - likewise Azertyuiop and Well Chief
Neptune Collonges too high by about 6lbs
VPU too high by about 10lbs
Deanos Beeno too high by about 3lbs
Big Bucks too high by a couple of lbs
Inglis Drever too high by about 6lbs

Shame they don't appear to have rated French performances - Le Sauvignon should get into the bottom of the list at around 174 for his Prix D'Automne.
 
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Galileo said:
Master Minded – 186
Kauto Star – 185
Denman – 184
Moscow Flyer – 182
Azertyuiop – 179
Well Chief – 179
First Gold – 178
Best Mate – 178
Exotic Dancer – 178
Voy Por Ustedes – 178
Neptune Collonges – 178
Gloria Victus – 177
Kicking King – 177
Madison Du Berlais – 177
Limestone Lad – 176
See More Business – 176
Deanos Beano – 176
Baracouda – 176
Big Bucks – 176
Iris’s Gift – 176
Dato Star – 175
Florida Pearl – 174
Beef Or Salmon – 174
Inglis Drever – 174
Our Vic - 174
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Interesting to note how few hurdlers there are in there and most of those are way too high and they're all stayers.

Limestone Lad was a very admirable performer but I never got him anywhere near that level. Baracouda was a 172 and he was the best. I don't think I ever got Inglis Drever above 167. I do, however, have Big Buck's around the 176-178 mark, which is, on my figures, genuinely unusually high. I imagine he's probably the best staying hurdler I've ever rated.

And to think I backed the bastart in the Hennessy last year:(
 
Top four pick themselves (although not necessarily in that order). Denman and Kauto should be disputing top spot with Moscow Flyer next and Master Minded after him. Baracouda should also be up there disputing things with the chasers (although we have spoken about how they seem to slap on half a stone when a good hurdler goes chasing for unexplained reasons).

Hilarious that Istabraq, Looks Like Trouble and Rooster Booster don't make the top 25, but the likes of Champion Hurdle trial winner Dato Star, Inglis Drever and Our Vic do.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Odd too that Punchestowns is missing from the list, considering the mark awarded to Big Bucks.
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I thought that... He's outside the top 25 but mentioned on 172. They can't make up their minds about the hurdlers with Limestone Lad, Deano's Beeno, Baracouda, Big Bucks and Iris's Gift all sharing the same mark of 176 (which represents a hurdling ceiling).
 
Istabraq a frankly shocking ommission, to be fair, though I'm perfectly satisfied with the mark awarded Dato Star. :p

Rooster Booster a slightly harder case to make, but agree that LLT should probably be in there somewhere around See More Business' mark.

I do believe that I might just have to brave the weather and actually buy myself a copy of the Post for the first time in an age.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I do, however, have Big Buck's around the 176-178 mark, which is, on my figures, genuinely unusually high. I imagine he's probably the best staying hurdler I've ever rated.
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I agree BB should take very high order. For me he's approaching the level that Baracouda and Iris's Gift achieved in their epic all-time best staying battles. He looks brilliantly good and can be expected to post a very high rating in the 2010 World Hurdle, up to or beyond this year's.
 
Its hard enough deciphering this stuff across generations without stayers and 2 milers being bundled up with hurdlers. Would you really have Azertyuiop within four pounds of Kauto, Grasshopper? Over 2 miles sure, but as an overall performer?

Is there perhaps a slight tendency to get overexcited about "that tingle creek" ?

Does seem that the non staying hurdlers over the generation are deemed much of a muchness. But perhaps that is fair
 
Grasshopper said:
Istabraq a frankly shocking ommission, to be fair, though I'm perfectly satisfied with the mark awarded Dato Star. :p

Rooster Booster a slightly harder case to make, but agree that LLT should probably be in there somewhere around See More Business' mark.

I do believe that I might just have to brave the weather and actually buy myself a copy of the Post for the first time in an age.
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Although a great Istabraq fan, I can see why he was never accorded a brilliant rating his wins were very natural and comfortable (in perhaps the same way that STS was on the Flat), but it’s an outrage he’s out of the top-25.

He suffers (like Montjeu) in straddling the beginning of the past decade, but even so, he has a Champion Hurdle win on the board in that time.
 
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Could it be that Istabraq's best performances came in the previous decade? Only the last of his Champion Hurdles was post-millennium...

Agreed re Master Minded, Voy Por being rated too hightly. I think the fact that Voy Por was overrated forced them to rate MM ludicrously high. Also, I just can't have Madison du Berlais as one of the best 15 horses of the decade - that is plainly a mistake as far as I can see. Perhaps they are rating him through Denman, and making the mistake of thinking the Tank ran anywhere close to form on either occasion...
 
clivex said:
Its hard enough deciphering this stuff across generations without stayers and 2 milers being bundled up with hurdlers. Would you really have Azertyuiop within four pounds of Kauto, Grasshopper? Over 2 miles sure, but as an overall performer?

Is there perhaps a slight tendency to get overexcited about "that tingle creek" ?
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'That' Tingle Creek is rock-solid as far as I'm concerned, clivex. Azertyuiop went into the race on the back of a huge handicap performance in the Haldon, and Well Chief went onto an equally huge handicap performance in the Chandler thereafter.

It's almost impossible to over-rate the Sandown race, imo - and all three horses put up performances up there with the best of Kauto Star's (though just not quite at the same level), imo.
 
BennyB said:
Could it be that Istabraq's best performances came in the previous decade? Only the last of his Champion Hurdles was post-millennium...
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Indeed so. As mentioned (like Montjeu in the Flat survey) he suffers from straddling the beginning of the decade. But for me Istabraq's last Champion was better than Dato Star's Haydock trial.
 
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Fair enough Grasshopper and aware of that, but maybe Kauto and Denman ar the underrated ones here? Personally i think they are the two absolute giants of the decade and some way ahead of the rest, except perhaps Master minded whos Cheltenham performance (despite recent crabbing because of subsequent form) was still an extraordinary round of jumping at speed
 
Master Minded wouldn't have beaten Moscow Flyer, clivex - and it would have been close between him and Azerty/Well Chief too.

His first Champion Chase, for all it's impressiveness, was a straightforward case of the progressive animal beating three others who all had holes in their form going into the race.

IMO, at least.
 
Of the two lists (flat and jumps) ratings of Voy Por Ustedes and Madison Du Berlais are just plain laughable.
 
Galileo said:
Of the two lists (flat and jumps) ratings of Voy Por Ustedes and Madison Du Berlais are just plain laughable.
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Half agree. VPU has always been overrated, in my opinion. MDB, if you take literal readings of the form, is probably worth his mark. He's racing against the best in a generation. Half a dozen years ago he'd have been a champion.
 
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