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Just when you think the BHA can't get any more stupid and deluded.....

It cant just be me ! This is obviously one for the oldies (the maturer of us :rolleyes:), but every time i see the name of the new chairman of the BHA (whenever he decides to bother to start the job) Lord Allen, i immediately think of Ray Alan and Lord Charles. You can see where i am coming from here. And just to further the point, we all know that the BHA are a bunch of clowns and comedians and they have just now added a ventriloquist to the outfit.

I know i shouldnt really joke about this saviour of racing but with his background of being CEO of Granada Television and then Chief Executive of Carlton Communications when they merged. And then chief advisor to the Home Office and a senior advisor to Goldman Sachs and then non executive director of Endemol and Virgin Media and executive chairman of EMI. Followed by being chairman of Balfour Beatty, THG, the ISS Group, 2 Sisters Food Group and Global Group and not forgetting advisory chairman of Moelis and Company. After all that, who the hell am I to question someone who is an absolute perfect choice to be in charge of the BHA (you know, horse racing), after that lifetime of relevant experience in the game ????????????????????????????????? :unsure::rolleyes:

Or is it me ???
 
If it's you, it's me as well.

In my ignoble career ducking and diving around the fringes of national newspaper journalism and then the betting industry in London, I've had dealings with various "big names" and IMO, pretty much without exception, they were nowhere near as smart as they were cracked up to be.

It's one of the reasons why I left London for Hampshire in 2002 - to get away from that loathsome metropolitan world full of the overrated and those who fawned over them.

I won't be holding my breath over this bloke being any better than any of his predecessors - but tbh I don't much care either way.

I still love racing and betting, but I royally despise too many of those connected with both.
 
With reference to the title of the thread, i would argue that the stupidity of the BHA has no limits. They are the most incompetent (dis)organisation on this tiny planet of ours. Racing will continue its long, slow painful death whilst this bunch amateur idiots remain in charge. Off the top of my head in just five minutes i thought of the following.
The complete f**k up at Nottingham about 6 or 7 years ago when the wrong horse was mistakenly announced over the tannoy as a non runner whilst the horses were at the post and it wasnt allowed to run.

Around the same time two horses from the Ivan Furtado stable were mixed up ran in the wrong races. This was obviously not the first time it had happened but the BHA (yet again) said they would put measures in place to make sure it didnt happen again. A few months later it happened again with a couple of Charlie McBride horses. It has happened a few times since.

We had the fiasco of Lossiemouth being allotted the wrong weight at Cheltenham early last year. That wasnt too long after four horses carried the incorrect weights in a race at York. They hadnt even noticed that they had changed the ratings in the race conditions.

How many photo finish cock ups have we seen ???? I remember Absaloms Lady in the Christmas hurdle many moons ago. There have been many since The clowns at the BHA say after every f**k up that they are putting measures in place to "make sure it doesnt happen again" What a load of f**king tosh !!!! A mate of mine who likes piling into a shorty now and again got well screwed over when the clowns at Kempton (again) called the wrong result in the Bird For Life/Oregon Gift race. If i remember rightly his bet was a 550/500.

Then there was the Gavin Cromwell horse that they refused to let run because they had f**ked the weights up. The name of the horse escapes me but i know it was at Wolverhampton.

Or the case of Sean McBride in the Danny Brock affair when the BHA morons first of all said that the penalty guidance system had been changed since a previous case and then at a later date realised that it had NOT been changed. He was banned for 7 years but his lawyer argued that it should only have been 6 months. When the idiots tried the case again they moved the goalposts and reduced his ban from 7 years to 5 years.

I could go on but it is winding me up. No doubt many of you could add plenty to this short (?) list of mine.

So in summary, the BHA are a bunch of f**king useless morons who cause more damage to an already dying sport and they havent stopped yet.
Just you watch !!!
As with everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion. I see things a bit differently though. As my comments are generally supportive of the BHA, I’m not imagining they will garner a lot of support here, but that is no reason not to put them forward.

You could argue it is a low bar, but I would say the BHA is very far from being the worst Sporting Governing Body in this Country and it is way ahead of many International Horse Racing Authorities in terms of Equine Welfare, Drug Testing and Control, as well as in Integrity issues. Unfortunately, they will never be able to effectively oversee all aspects of this Sport, as vested interests within it, jealously protect their own interests.

I’m sure the BHA is far from perfect, but Horse Racing must be quite a difficult Sport to administer, as it has so many separate Stakeholders, who understandably want to push their own, mainly financial, interests. It is also the norm in life, for any discontent (fairly, or unfairly) about any issue to be directed at whatever Authority exists in that sphere, be it Government, Police, Referees, Governing Bodies, etc. However, Horse Racing has managed to, by and large, avoid the types of controversy that have engulfed other UK Sports, like Athletics, Gymnastics, Cycling, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Table Tennis and probably many more, whilst continuing to be well run. This is more impressive in this day and age, given the opposition to, and obvious risks of, it being a dangerous sport involving a much-loved animal.

The BHA employ about 250 people and rely on many more, from other organisations on a race day - they can’t all be “useless morons”. However, these are human and they will sometimes make mistakes. I understand it can be easier to accept others mistakes if they do no cost you, or they may even benefit you, personally, but I think most would confess that at some point in their life they have made a mistake, and probably a silly one.

The focus of your discontent with the BHA, as expressed, is mainly related to mistakes made on race day. For context, there are about 10,000 races a year, involving around 88,000 runners. I don’t imagine there are too many people celebrating the 99.9% of races that proceed without incident, but there are a lot of people, many employed by the BHA, that facilitate the enjoyment we have of those races. This never seems to acknowledged.

When, I first got interested in racing as a very young boy, about 60 years ago, I’m sure there were loads of wrong results called in photo finishes and I’m sure lots of “ringers” turned up in races and won them. It didn’t affect my enjoyment of racing then, and we have progressed massively since then and it is now very rare to see these types of mistakes made. So a rare error now is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, as long as lessons are learnt for the future. You assert that they always say they are putting measures in place to make sure things don’t happen again. Well, it is true, and these measures have worked. The Bird for Life race in March 2018 you mentioned was I think the last race where the wrong result was called and not corrected before weighed-in was called. The judge that day was then sacked 4 months later after a further error (which was corrected before weighed-in called). The same system corrected a wrong call at Sandown, where they have 2 winning posts, when RaceTech provided the judge with the wrong photograph of a hurdle race finish. I’m not aware of any similar wrong results in the approximately 75,000 races since then, so that is pretty good going.

Whilst the BHA accept responsibility for these Raceday cock-ups, they aren’t always at fault. They did accept blame for Charlie McBride running the wrong horse, but it was the Trainers fault and he was fined £1,500 for his trouble. When Ivan Furtado committed the same offence 6 months later in January 2018, there was a new procedure in place whereby horses were scanned upon leaving the stables. I’m not sure how these were circumvented, but Furtado ended up with a £2,000 fine. Again, the BHA promised further measures and this mix-up hasn’t happened since, more than 75,000 races later. However, it has happened in Ireland, with a much smaller horse population and racing calendar, on at least 2 occasions, at Galway in 2021 and Killarney 2 years ago.

With so many races, often with complicated conditions, I’m surprised there aren’t more errors with weights. The three you have highlighted from the last 5 years (50,000 races) were all picked up before the race was run. Lossiemouth had been allotted a 6lb penalty for winning a Grade 1, which was correct, were it not for the fact a further condition meant this should have been halved if that success was as a juvenile.

The race where 4 horses ran with wrong weight was due to a change of previous conditions and connections were all offered the chance to withdraw the horses and be refunded. They all still ran.

The Gavin Cromwell horse had the wrong weight allotted as a result of 2 quick wins that hadn’t been picked up on. It is no credit to the BHA, but if they had been, he wouldn’t have been qualified to run anyway. That particular error doesn’t appear to have happened in the almost 5 years since.

The photo finish farce involving Absalom’s Lady, happened in 1994, 12 and a half years before the BHA came into existence, so I don’t think they can be blamed for that one! Worryingly though, the judge involved was still around and making mistakes 12 years later and had been involved in the training of judges (again before the advent of the BHA)!

So, all-in-all, I am saying the BHA are doing a pretty good job. However, in case it appears that I am an apologist for them, I would say that one massive issue I have with them was their slavish adherence to the interests of the big Bookmakers when reducing the FOBT’s limit was being debated 6 years ago. I know the financing of the Sport is reliant on the profitability of Bookmakers, but if your Sport can’t survive without a machine programmed to make you lose and cause untold harm and misery to many of your customers, then you don’t deserve to survive. Furthermore, it was their actions at that time that have made the arguments to deal with the currently proposed tax equalisation of Gambling taxes, so much harder to make.
 
Good stuff Mr Whatoxo and thank you for your (long) reply :)
And what sort of world would we live in if we all thought the same and had no difference of opinion whatsoever.

The few examples i gave were just off the top of my head. i suppose if i had googled the BHA i could have listed a lot more. But i just cant be arsed.
Like many people, and possibly a few on here, i have had, or tried to have, personal dealings with the BHA but apart from two occasions where i phoned them and wouldnt take no for an answer, i have been ignored every time. From my point of view, their attitude is "we are right and we answer to nobody". A case of "We are the BHA and who are you to question us".

I find that they are very reactive rather than proactive. Yes, none of us have a crystal ball but sometimes a little bit of thought would have helped.

You think they do a good job. Fair enough. And plenty might agree with you. I obviously disagree and i know plenty will agree with me.
But there you go, its all about opinions. And long may they continue.
 
Many people deem themselves to be the saviour of all racing flat/NH/Point to Points and come up with many ways that they could do better than the people in the the top positions until it comes to putting their heads above the parapet ………….all just keyboard warriors seeking attention and boosting their status on social media
 
Good stuff Mr Whatoxo and thank you for your (long) reply :)
And what sort of world would we live in if we all thought the same and had no difference of opinion whatsoever.

The few examples i gave were just off the top of my head. i suppose if i had googled the BHA i could have listed a lot more. But i just cant be arsed.
Like many people, and possibly a few on here, i have had, or tried to have, personal dealings with the BHA but apart from two occasions where i phoned them and wouldnt take no for an answer, i have been ignored every time. From my point of view, their attitude is "we are right and we answer to nobody". A case of "We are the BHA and who are you to question us".

I find that they are very reactive rather than proactive. Yes, none of us have a crystal ball but sometimes a little bit of thought would have helped.

You think they do a good job. Fair enough. And plenty might agree with you. I obviously disagree and i know plenty will agree with me.
But there you go, its all about opinions. And long may they continue.
Sorry, yes, it was a long reply and I now know I’m limited to 10,000 characters if I get carried away again.

I had to edit my message to remove the addressing of your second email about Bookmakers. I agree with you more on that one. This is what I would have said:

I do agree that today’s bookmakers are not the same as those I grew up with and they have used the Affordability checks to screen out many horse racing customers they do not want. Their main interest now does seem to be to in directing customers to the cancerous Casino type games. However, I disagree with the figures quoting turnover dropping to £3bn on Horse Racing and bookmakers no longer being interested in the sport. The sport is still an entry point for many into betting and it is the second largest attended Sport in the country, so people are still interested in it. £3bn was the 24/25 figure for off course gambling in Betting Shops. It doesn’t include online gambling on horse racing, which the BHA estimated, in their submission to the DCMS’s Gambling Regulation Committee, to now make up 76% of all Horse Racing betting (total for online, plus betting shop turnover quoted as being £13.2bn in 2021/22). This doesn’t include on course betting, pool betting, or whatever business has gone to the Black Market. You are probably right that the £3bn will continue to fall though, as more people move online and more bookmakers physical shops close (reduced by a third in the last 10 years) - and that is without the effects of the the “Racing Tax” and whatever happens about Affordability Checks
 
Many people deem themselves to be the saviour of all racing flat/NH/Point to Points and come up with many ways that they could do better than the people in the the top positions until it comes to putting their heads above the parapet ………….all just keyboard warriors seeking attention and boosting their status on social media
I cant see any keyboard warriors on this thread nor can i see anyone promoting themselves as a saviour of all things racing. What i can see is a few people who have obviously been around racing for many years who have differing opinions on how racing is run.
 
Sorry, yes, it was a long reply and I now know I’m limited to 10,000 characters if I get carried away again.

I had to edit my message to remove the addressing of your second email about Bookmakers. I agree with you more on that one. This is what I would have said:

I do agree that today’s bookmakers are not the same as those I grew up with and they have used the Affordability checks to screen out many horse racing customers they do not want. Their main interest now does seem to be to in directing customers to the cancerous Casino type games. However, I disagree with the figures quoting turnover dropping to £3bn on Horse Racing and bookmakers no longer being interested in the sport. The sport is still an entry point for many into betting and it is the second largest attended Sport in the country, so people are still interested in it. £3bn was the 24/25 figure for off course gambling in Betting Shops. It doesn’t include online gambling on horse racing, which the BHA estimated, in their submission to the DCMS’s Gambling Regulation Committee, to now make up 76% of all Horse Racing betting (total for online, plus betting shop turnover quoted as being £13.2bn in 2021/22). This doesn’t include on course betting, pool betting, or whatever business has gone to the Black Market. You are probably right that the £3bn will continue to fall though, as more people move online and more bookmakers physical shops close (reduced by a third in the last 10 years) - and that is without the effects of the the “Racing Tax” and whatever happens about Affordability Checks
Is horse racing still an entry point into betting ??? I just dont see that any more. Football and, as you say, the cancerous casino type games seem to be the draw now if my experience is anything to go by. I wish it were so but i just cant see it any more.

I worked for a "big name" bookmaker until i retired (early, i'd had enough of them pushing casino and the emergence of bots) and i remember a conversation from around 2008 where the gaffer said the manpower v profit ratio for horse racing was just not worth it. And we could all see it. And he said that if he could do away with it he would. Obviously tongue in cheek at the time but there was an element of truth in his statement. And at the same time, the focus was on pushing people towards the casino so it is not solely the main interest now, this was going on many moons ago. And for someone like me who had been involved in betting nearly all of my working life and who had managed their first betting shop back in 1974, the thought of punters being taken away from racing and pushed towards poker, blackjack, roulette and the likes was almost criminal. And from that day i knew my days were numbered and the betting game wouldnt be the same any more.
We agree about the "bookmakers" of today. We really cant even call them that because as we both know, they bear no resemblance to the bookmakers of our era. No doubt someone will come along and start telling us to stop living in the past and to stop telling everyone about how good it was in "our day" but it is fact and nobody can dispute that.

As for the "Racing Tax", we will find out more soon enough. But as for the "Affordability Checks", that is the biggest farce and disgrace to hit the betting scene for a long, long time.
 
I think Mr Whatoxo is, always, very fair and even handed, but I'm not about to pretend I never saw what I saw in the racing and betting industries these past 40 years and I'm firmly in the Quixall Crossett camp here.

None of this makes any difference to me, I'd prefer a Tour Of Duty to a job in racing or betting, but honestly the calibre of the people in the top jobs is shockingly low.

Maybe it's the same in every industry (tbh I suspect it is) but I only comment on what I've directly seen.

Racing is no longer the natural entry point into betting and racing has allowed this to happen.

In my lifetime, we've gone from Dick Francis feeling it was his duty to extol the virtues of betting in his wonderfully educational autobiography to those clowns at the BHA wanting to talk about anything but betting when marketing the sport.

The Saturday football "acca" has usurped the ITV7 as the young adults's recreational bet of choice and a failure to see this is to be in denial.
 
On Betfair Sportsbook they have a free go at a daily pin ball type game called “Take Ya Shot” . Fall in a “lose” slot - hard luck. Fall in a “win” slot you get some free spins at one of the games.
Every so often during a festival they do a can’t lose promotion where your daily go always falls in the “win” slot. Harmless fun, but hang on there’s a point coming!

That point is that if they can manipulate the game so you always win, then they can equally manipulate it so you lose and the same must apply to all these games. How anyone can think otherwise is beyond me and it’s no surprise that much of the problem gambling comes from money being pumped into these games at a rate of knots where the bookies can just ensure no-one is getting a fair crack.
 
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Agree with everything you say Ian.
For me, football is king as far as the young ones betting but sadly i think the casinos arent too far behind.

Here is something i heard just last week whilst the good lady and I were having a coffee. The two young lads behind us were discussing their woes and one said, " I done £35 before i got out of bed this morning. I hate that poker site".
His mate said that he had packed the said site in and moved to another one.
I honestly felt like giving them a lecture but i just sat tight and kept my gob shut.

But how sad is that. It certainly saddened me. As Mr Whatoxo says, cancerous casinos !
 
On Betfair Sportsbook they have a free go at a daily pin ball type game called “Take Ya Shot” . Fall in a “lose” shot - hard luck. Fall in a “win” slot you get some free spins at one of the games.
Every so often during a festival they do a can’t lose promotion where your daily go always falls in the “win” slot. Harmless fun, but hang on there’s a point coming!

That point is that if they can manipulate the game so you always win, then they can equally manipulate it so you lose and the same must apply to all these games. How anyone can think otherwise is beyond me and it’s no surprise that much of the problem gambling comes from money being pumped into these games at a rate of knots where the bookies can just ensure no-one is getting a fair crack.
Exactly mate !
Why do "bookmakers" want to take horse racing bets and make 3 or 4% when they can fill their shops and websites with FOBTS and casino games ? :(
 
On a personal note, i will share something that saddens me greatly. I go on about the bots that rule the betting markets for each firm now and these bots have obviously replaced the traders and compilers of yesteryear. You see it every day on Oddschecker no matter what race you look at because 99% of the time, every horse is the same price with each and every firm. One firm puts the prices up, the rest copy and paste. And as i always say, if that first firm have priced one up wrong then every firm is now wrong.
But my point here is the loss of the knowledgeable and clever lads who were the compilers of days gone by. I was fortunate enough to work with some very clever lads who could walk into any firm in the country today and be top dog. But the plain and simple fact is that they are not needed any more. "Opinions not welcome" !!!!! :(

But its what has happened to them. The funny (but sad) tale of one of the lads is that towards the end of his time he said he would be better off stacking shelves in Tesco. And by a strange quirk of fate, that is exactly what he does now. Another lad, who was absolutely excellent at his job now works selling energy contracts to everyone. And he is only in his late 40's. And another lad who was an excellent ante post compiler now works for a delivery firm like DHL or the likes.
What a waste !!
I am lucky that i am an old twat and nearly past my sell by date but it is those lads and the others that i know about that i feel really sorry for.

As i say, they are just not bookmakers any more !!!!!
 
Same here

My local bookies (now closed down) used to be buzzing between 12 and 1pm on a Saturday

Then in the mid 90's they started putting the poxy fruit machines in betting shops which attracted all the scrotes, it just went downhill after that
I remember back in the 70's and 80's when the shops used to start filling up from around 10.30 in readiness for Hackney dogs starting and whatever other meeting accompanied it at the time. The old memory is going a bit now but i think Bristol used to be on as well although there were one or two others over time. And the shop would remain busy right throughout the day and as Danny said in his post, it was a social gathering. And even during the week there would be the usual suspects and it was always kept busy.
Fast forward to September 2023 when the missus and I went out for a spin and were driving thru Guisborough and called into the Corals shop there to watch the St Leger.
Not a soul was in there !!
Nobody !!
Apart from the two staff behind the counter we watched the race alone as the tumbleweed drifted past us. I asked one of the staff where everyone was and she said it was like that most Saturdays.

How times change.
 
Here's a couple reasons to back horses in betting shops and an alternative view to boot.

1.Face to face interaction. A much appreciated commodity in these quarters. Sitting behind a laptop all day on my own would depress me. Moreso if I had a losing day.

2. Relative anonymity, in terms of not having online banking transactions pryed over by all and sundry.

When I received emails from my bank a couple years ago saying my gambling activity was high, I knew the only escape was to go old school, and venture back into the bookies.

Call me a mug, call me what you want.

I don't gamble professionally and it's only a hobby, so it suits me fine.

Finally, I'm a big strapping fella. I'm not scared to venture into a shop where I am.
 
I remember back in the 70's and 80's when the shops used to start filling up from around 10.30 in readiness for Hackney dogs starting and whatever other meeting accompanied it at the time. The old memory is going a bit now but i think Bristol used to be on as well although there were one or two others over time. And the shop would remain busy right throughout the day and as Danny said in his post, it was a social gathering. And even during the week there would be the usual suspects and it was always kept busy.
Fast forward to September 2023 when the missus and I went out for a spin and were driving thru Guisborough and called into the Corals shop there to watch the St Leger.
Not a soul was in there !!
Nobody !!
Apart from the two staff behind the counter we watched the race alone as the tumbleweed drifted past us. I asked one of the staff where everyone was and she said it was like that most Saturdays.

How times change.
Yep. Pubs open all day, is a main issue. When they used to shut at 3 ( or whatever time ) on Saturdays. A lot of us would flock to the bookies. Pick up winnings, swap hard luck stories, congratulate the odd big winner who had it off + then try + crack the remaining few races. There was definitely a social feel to it all, as you rightly point out.
 
Here's a couple reasons to back horses in betting shops and an alternative view to boot.

1.Face to face interaction. A much appreciated commodity in these quarters. Sitting behind a laptop all day on my own would depress me. Moreso if I had a losing day.

2. Relative anonymity, in terms of not having online banking transactions pryed over by all and sundry.

When I received emails from my bank a couple years ago saying my gambling activity was high, I knew the only escape was to go old school, and venture back into the bookies.

Call me a mug, call me what you want.

I don't gamble professionally and it's only a hobby, so it suits me fine.

Finally, I'm a big strapping fella. I'm not scared to venture into a shop where I am.
One of the component parts of my currently 16-strand "Edgefolio" necessitates the occasional visit to a betting shop.

I like to think I do a fair impression of an amiable aging duffer who enjoys the occasional bet.

I often ask for help putting the bet on, express pleasant surprise when told I've got the maths right and express even more surprise when I return to the shop days later when I win.

The young staff actually seem to quite like me!

Given I'm actually a Grade A, 24-carat, See You Next Tuesday, I consider this a method acting masterpiece Brando would have been proud of.
 
I have a mate who spends all day in the bookies, most days of the week. He calls it his social club. He doesn't have the cash to gamble every day, but he likes the social aspect of it, from the staff to the punters. They club together and get him a wee bottle of whisky every now and then - the other week he received an enormous sirloin steak, gratis. The staff give him his dinner once or twice a week.

He loves it.

A few months ago, he got a job interview request for a position with the Jobcentre (or whatever they're called these days). He got the job, but is still waiting for a start date 2-3 months on.

Needless to say, he was unhappy that his social life was going to be interrupted with the inconvenience of going back to work!
 
I remember back in the 70's and 80's when the shops used to start filling up from around 10.30 in readiness for Hackney dogs starting and whatever other meeting accompanied it at the time. The old memory is going a bit now but i think Bristol used to be on as well although there were one or two others over time. And the shop would remain busy right throughout the day and as Danny said in his post, it was a social gathering. And even during the week there would be the usual suspects and it was always kept busy.
Fast forward to September 2023 when the missus and I went out for a spin and were driving thru Guisborough and called into the Corals shop there to watch the St Leger.
Not a soul was in there !!
Nobody !!
Apart from the two staff behind the counter we watched the race alone as the tumbleweed drifted past us. I asked one of the staff where everyone was and she said it was like that most Saturdays.

How times change.
Hackney dogs brings back great memories of times when all my friends who gambled would be in the bookies at 10am every Saturday morning without fail.
I seem to recall that Watford dogs also ran at the same time and there was a coloured sheet with the dogs form on that everyone huddled around.
I kept a database at the time of all results from Hackney dogs for the last couple of years which proved invaluable for picking winners.
If my memory serves me right a particular favourite of mine was a dog called Barkers Choice who ran up a sequence of 6 or 7 wins.
If you go in a bookies these days everyone is in a hurry to be parted from their money by playing on the fruit machines/casino games and the staff seem bored out of their minds.
So sad to see!!!!
 
Anyway. As someone who retired earlier this year. I intend to make use of my local bookie this coming NH season. Probably starting early December. I can go, make myself comfortable, drink endless tea, coffee, bring a sandwich + talk absolute bollocks to all n sundry, whenever I feel the need. Watch all the racing, without having a bet ( mostly Mon to Fri fayre ).
Cheaper than sitting at home with the heating + television on 🤣
 
I agree with a lot of the comments here e.g. football accas are the betting medium of choice for many casual saturday punters that would have previously gravitated to horse racing.

The nature of my work means I've worked all over the uk for a broad spread of companies, and believe me the bha's "sub optimal management" at times is far from unusual.

From my experience if there's no direct financial accountability then the more things run like a bag of hammers but the small cogs keep it going, I found the civ service worst of all.
When it comes to smaller companies where the owners are running the place you get more of a tight ship & less at home to mr fkup.

Ultimately bookmakers are there to take money from people and ideally with the least possible cost/risk to themselves. Hence we are where we are with ristrictions, fobts etc etc etc.

Vacuums tend to be filled, so is there a gap in the market for a firm that isnt a glorified commission agent but a real independent horse racing bookmaker who has the right people employed so that they have their own opinion and their opening prices for the card aren't just a cut & paste?
It would need someone who doesnt just see horse racing as a means to an end to extract money from people, because why bother when you can go with the crowd for the easy money?
 
I agree with a lot of the comments here e.g. football accas are the betting medium of choice for many casual saturday punters that would have previously gravitated to horse racing.

The nature of my work means I've worked all over the uk for a broad spread of companies, and believe me the bha's "sub optimal management" at times is far from unusual.

From my experience if there's no direct financial accountability then the more things run like a bag of hammers but the small cogs keep it going, I found the civ service worst of all.
When it comes to smaller companies where the owners are running the place you get more of a tight ship & less at home to mr fkup.

Ultimately bookmakers are there to take money from people and ideally with the least possible cost/risk to themselves. Hence we are where we are with ristrictions, fobts etc etc etc.

Vacuums tend to be filled, so is there a gap in the market for a firm that isnt a glorified commission agent but a real independent horse racing bookmaker who has the right people employed so that they have their own opinion and their opening prices for the card aren't just a cut & paste?
It would need someone who doesnt just see horse racing as a means to an end to extract money from people, because why bother when you can go with the crowd for the easy money?
Regarding your last paragraph pawras, all i can say is - If only !!!!!!!!
I used to say the very same thing on the old forum i used to be on but at the same time i used to add that it will NEVER happen...................unfortunately.
A few have tried, didnt Black Type try to have a go ? And they didnt last long. Perhaps the wrong strategy ? Perhaps the wrong staff ? Who knows ? I certainly dont. Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

And as regard your first paragraph, again you are spot on. I will just add that all i hear these days from the young ones, (and my brother :mad: doh) is bet builders, bet builders and more bet builders.
I have absolutely no comment to make on those.
 
Hackney dogs brings back great memories of times when all my friends who gambled would be in the bookies at 10am every Saturday morning without fail.
I seem to recall that Watford dogs also ran at the same time and there was a coloured sheet with the dogs form on that everyone huddled around.
I kept a database at the time of all results from Hackney dogs for the last couple of years which proved invaluable for picking winners.
If my memory serves me right a particular favourite of mine was a dog called Barkers Choice who ran up a sequence of 6 or 7 wins.
If you go in a bookies these days everyone is in a hurry to be parted from their money by playing on the fruit machines/casino games and the staff seem bored out of their minds.
So sad to see!!!!
Watford dogs !! Good call Barnstormer. I remember it well now.
The coloured sheet you mention i am certain was called Greyform and i may be right in thinking it was put out by Jackson and Lowe, the same people who used to do the race sheets and marker sheets back in the day of the boardmarkers.
 
I have a mate who spends all day in the bookies, most days of the week. He calls it his social club. He doesn't have the cash to gamble every day, but he likes the social aspect of it, from the staff to the punters. They club together and get him a wee bottle of whisky every now and then - the other week he received an enormous sirloin steak, gratis. The staff give him his dinner once or twice a week.

He loves it.

A few months ago, he got a job interview request for a position with the Jobcentre (or whatever they're called these days). He got the job, but is still waiting for a start date 2-3 months on.

Needless to say, he was unhappy that his social life was going to be interrupted with the inconvenience of going back to work!
🙂
When i eventually got round to owning my own betting shop, the first thing i used to tell the staff on day one was always keep the biscuit tin full and never run short of coffee and tea bags. Some might say unscrupulous but it kept the punters in the shop, especially the taxi drivers with their bags full of cash. I was lucky enough to own a shop with a bloody big car park next to it so it was a sort of meeting place for them and it was a good earner. And with them around, i never ran short of change. 🙂
 
Regarding your last paragraph pawras, all i can say is - If only !!!!!!!!
I used to say the very same thing on the old forum i used to be on but at the same time i used to add that it will NEVER happen...................unfortunately.
A few have tried, didnt Black Type try to have a go ? And they didnt last long. Perhaps the wrong strategy ? Perhaps the wrong staff ? Who knows ? I certainly dont. Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

And as regard your first paragraph, again you are spot on. I will just add that all i hear these days from the young ones, (and my brother :mad: doh) is bet builders, bet builders and more bet builders.
I have absolutely no comment to make on those.

If I had the money to risk, as a big fk u, I'd set up a horse racing bookie with a team of my own odds compilers, who would have to keep proving themselves to keep their jobs, I've worked under those conditions & I know it keeps people sharp.

As a starting pouint, no bots, no restrictions, take a bet from anyone on any horse up to loss of £250, no fobts or casino shit, no being a cnt when people want to withdraw.
 
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