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Kempton Park, "change" and "tradition"
- Thread starter Ian_Davies
- Start date
Quixall Crossett
Apprentice
Quote - "I never liked the Derby being on a Wednesday because it was either a school/uni/work day."
It was for you and me mate but many, many thousands threw a sickie or whatever and made the day an unofficial bank holiday.
Was it best on a Wednesday ? I dont really know is the honest answer but its how it was from when i started following racing around Nijinskys Derby until they moved it in the mid 90's. But what i do know is that turnover suffered badly because of the move and it never recovered. And it definitely isnt gonna recover now.
It was for you and me mate but many, many thousands threw a sickie or whatever and made the day an unofficial bank holiday.
Was it best on a Wednesday ? I dont really know is the honest answer but its how it was from when i started following racing around Nijinskys Derby until they moved it in the mid 90's. But what i do know is that turnover suffered badly because of the move and it never recovered. And it definitely isnt gonna recover now.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
First time I attended The Derby was 1985 and it was a stand-out day in my racing life.
I had 20/1 Slip Anchor ante-post and had actually backed him on the rails with Heathorns at Newmarket after seeing him break the clock in what is now the Newmarket Stakes at the Guineas meeting, so excitement was high.
I got the train to Epsom (wasn't aware of the Tattenham Corner option) and walked from the town up to the track.
I remember arriving, going to get my press badge, seeing Derek Thompson in top hat and tails in the queue ahead of me and raising a wry smile.
I then walked up the steps at the back of the Grandstand and out onto the terraces to survey the scene on the Downs - I was gobsmacked.
There was a slightly surreal mist, but you could not see one blade of grass on the Downs, it was packed, I'd guess at the better part of half a million there and it was still a good hour before racing.
I'd seen it on TV, of course, but the real deal was something else.
Because it was literally packed - and there was no big screen back then - they kinda went out of view a bit going down Tattenham Hill, as crowds and open top buses obscured the view, and you only caught glimpses.
So up in the Grandstand, you didn't realise Steve Cauthen had pulled clear.
Slip Anchor rounded the corner and it was literally two-three seconds before the pack came into view.
TWO-TO-THREE SECONDS.
That's an eternity in a race like that.
There was a pregnant pause, a shocked silence, you could hear a pin drop, and then the most almighty roar as Slip Anchor was the heavily-backed 9/4 favourite and the race was as good as over fully three furlongs out.
I'll never, ever, forget it.
Could those days be recaptured on a Wednesday?
I've no recollection of it being a public holiday in London, certainly not after I moved there in 1984, nor do I remember it being "expected" people would go.
I lived in London's East End in very working class areas but, away from my job and racecourses. Derby Day was seldom mentioned.
But plenty connived a day off to be there.
I think the world has changed, though, and there are more varied leisure and entertainment options nowadays.
My issue with The Derby is the race.
It was never "The World's Greatest Race" - it's restricted to 3yos for a start.
And it's over 1m4f, which is no longer the epicentre for commercial breeding excellence.
Breeders just don't set out to breed Derby winners the way they used to.
Speed and precocity at two and 1m-1m2f at 3yo and beyond are where it's at nowadays and it's been that way for years.
Coolmore have dominated since Galileo, but they're dominating a sphere fewer are interested in year on year, not least because of the way Coolmore farm with race with legion runners and an array of race tactics.
Adopting the Kentucky Derby qualifying model would change all that at a stroke.
Coolmore would be mortified and would lobby against it - confirming what a good idea it would be.
And dropping the race to 1m2f would open the race right up as well.
But racing has a long tradition of toadying to the established super powers - so they'll just take the Coolmore shilling to sponsor the Coronation Cup (which Coolmore will probably win anyway) - and a second fine tradition of being many years behind the curve with change.
The Gold Cup at 2m4f has been an irrelevance for years, ditto the St Leger (both NH sire breeze ups) so don't hold your breath on a 1m2f Derby, or even a series of ruthless, USA-style, qualifiers.
But it's what's needed to make it a decent race again and to make people actually want to go and see it live.
I had 20/1 Slip Anchor ante-post and had actually backed him on the rails with Heathorns at Newmarket after seeing him break the clock in what is now the Newmarket Stakes at the Guineas meeting, so excitement was high.
I got the train to Epsom (wasn't aware of the Tattenham Corner option) and walked from the town up to the track.
I remember arriving, going to get my press badge, seeing Derek Thompson in top hat and tails in the queue ahead of me and raising a wry smile.
I then walked up the steps at the back of the Grandstand and out onto the terraces to survey the scene on the Downs - I was gobsmacked.
There was a slightly surreal mist, but you could not see one blade of grass on the Downs, it was packed, I'd guess at the better part of half a million there and it was still a good hour before racing.
I'd seen it on TV, of course, but the real deal was something else.
Because it was literally packed - and there was no big screen back then - they kinda went out of view a bit going down Tattenham Hill, as crowds and open top buses obscured the view, and you only caught glimpses.
So up in the Grandstand, you didn't realise Steve Cauthen had pulled clear.
Slip Anchor rounded the corner and it was literally two-three seconds before the pack came into view.
TWO-TO-THREE SECONDS.
That's an eternity in a race like that.
There was a pregnant pause, a shocked silence, you could hear a pin drop, and then the most almighty roar as Slip Anchor was the heavily-backed 9/4 favourite and the race was as good as over fully three furlongs out.
I'll never, ever, forget it.
Could those days be recaptured on a Wednesday?
I've no recollection of it being a public holiday in London, certainly not after I moved there in 1984, nor do I remember it being "expected" people would go.
I lived in London's East End in very working class areas but, away from my job and racecourses. Derby Day was seldom mentioned.
But plenty connived a day off to be there.
I think the world has changed, though, and there are more varied leisure and entertainment options nowadays.
My issue with The Derby is the race.
It was never "The World's Greatest Race" - it's restricted to 3yos for a start.
And it's over 1m4f, which is no longer the epicentre for commercial breeding excellence.
Breeders just don't set out to breed Derby winners the way they used to.
Speed and precocity at two and 1m-1m2f at 3yo and beyond are where it's at nowadays and it's been that way for years.
Coolmore have dominated since Galileo, but they're dominating a sphere fewer are interested in year on year, not least because of the way Coolmore farm with race with legion runners and an array of race tactics.
Adopting the Kentucky Derby qualifying model would change all that at a stroke.
Coolmore would be mortified and would lobby against it - confirming what a good idea it would be.
And dropping the race to 1m2f would open the race right up as well.
But racing has a long tradition of toadying to the established super powers - so they'll just take the Coolmore shilling to sponsor the Coronation Cup (which Coolmore will probably win anyway) - and a second fine tradition of being many years behind the curve with change.
The Gold Cup at 2m4f has been an irrelevance for years, ditto the St Leger (both NH sire breeze ups) so don't hold your breath on a 1m2f Derby, or even a series of ruthless, USA-style, qualifiers.
But it's what's needed to make it a decent race again and to make people actually want to go and see it live.
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Ian_Davies
Conditional
I realy dislike the aspect of horse races where a trainer can pack a race with pace makers and blockers and only a few will know which one has been sent out to win, that's why I'd like to limit a yard on the number of entries they can have in a race
eg an 8 runner race = a max of two runners and fk u basically
I haven't done the figures yet for 2025 but in 2024 in IRE 63.66% of prize money was won by 30 trainers, and in GB it was 42.7%, I don't see that as healthy for the sport
eg an 8 runner race = a max of two runners and fk u basically
I haven't done the figures yet for 2025 but in 2024 in IRE 63.66% of prize money was won by 30 trainers, and in GB it was 42.7%, I don't see that as healthy for the sport
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jinnyj
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2004
- Messages
- 5,624
I thought it had been built on years ago just after it closed. I was sorry to see it go but ARC are barstewards when it comes to running down racecourses.
I actually trained my first winner there although she wasn't in my name as I hadn't got my licence then. She was an incredibly fragile filly who ran well on her debut at Lingfield only for the owners who were all Kent based to announce they wanted to land at touch with her at Folkestone (not a ideal track with its undulations for a filly who was very unsound). But we did win, with her nailing a Hannon hotpot. The owners took a fair bit of cash out of the ring that day. And you think they would have been happy but no they then insisted she went for a Conditions race next at Newmarket. But she started coughing and they still insisted she ran. She wasn't right and I pleaded with them not to make me run her but they did. She finished last in the race but still ran OK but they were furious and moved her to Mick Ryans where I used to have to watch her hobbling around the gallops - broke my heart. Weirdly after the owners retired her, her first foal beat one of mine at Wolverhampton in a photo finish.
Anyway, that's my reason for liking Folkestone.
WandererSkyLight
Amateur Rider
Random Fun Fact of the Day
One of Nijinsky's children is Maruzensky, winning every single race they entered in the 1976 and 1977 Japan seasons, who would go on to sire Sakura Chiyono O, who won the 1988 Tokyo Yushun (The Japan Equivalent of the Derby, and in the Same season as Oguri Cap's Arima Kinen win and Tamamo Cross' retirement)
