L'Ami

Grasshopper said:
No.

I would forward the "horse broke down in race and was later found to have fractured his pelvis" argument.

The Grande Steeple-chase de Paris is over 3m5f - the Jousellin is over an extended 3m3f. If you have a top-class French chaser on your hands that stays further than 2m5f, they are the only two logical targets in the calendar, as they are the biggest races in the calendar.

If you want to discuss French talking horses, you have the wrong animal in Cyrlight - you should be discussing Japhet instead.
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I think we are getting snagged on definitions of talking horses. There are unraced 2 year olds who get backed for next year's classics before they have seen a racecourse. There are the northern circuit sequence horses, the like of which Len Lungo and Gordon Richards would win 5 or 6 on the bonce with only to get turned over when pitching up at one of the big southern meetings.

Just because it is not common to refer to a multiple Group winner as a talking horse, if the Group wins were all achieved in own age events, and where the horse in question is defeated the first time he takes on established all age performers, then I think there is some merit in calling that horse a "talking horse". I am not too precious either way, I just felt you were a bit harsh with the other poster, dismissing him as having no knowledge of French Jumps form.

As I recall there was talk of Cyrlight being targeted at the top English races (although I may be getting mixed up with something else) and in that respect he was "talked up" by the press as a potential challenger to the cream of British steeplechasers. That did not materialise, through injury so we will never know, however as I implied before if your "non-stayer" theory were to hold water surely connections would have elected to put him away after the Grande Steeple-Chase and aim him at a King George, a race the French have done very well in down the years, and the ideal Grade 1 3m event for horses of suspect stamina.
 
numbersix said:
I think we are getting snagged on definitions of talking horses. .
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Almost definitely.

numbersix said:
Just because it is not common to refer to a multiple Group winner as a talking horse, if the Group wins were all achieved in own age events, and where the horse in question is defeated the first time he takes on established all age performers, then I think there is some merit in calling that horse a "talking horse". I am not too precious either way, I just felt you were a bit harsh with the other poster, dismissing him as having no knowledge of French Jumps form.
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As I said in an earlier post, Cyrlight won three Grade-3 all-aged chases as a 6yo, so the suggestion he was unable to win over fences outside his age group is erroneous. If my original response came across as harsh, then I apologise - it was not my intention. I just feel that there is a general tendency to consider French Jumps racing as second-division, when I think there is ample evidence to suggest otherwise.

numbersix said:
As I recall there was talk of Cyrlight being targeted at the top English races (although I may be getting mixed up with something else) and in that respect he was "talked up" by the press as a potential challenger to the cream of British steeplechasers. That did not materialise, through injury so we will never know, however as I implied before if your "non-stayer" theory were to hold water surely connections would have elected to put him away after the Grande Steeple-Chase and aim him at a King George, a race the French have done very well in down the years, and the ideal Grade 1 3m event for horses of suspect stamina.
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To be honest, I think it's perfectly logical for a horse trained in France to be targeted at French races. I don't agree with the assertion that the logical thing to do with Cyrlight was to avoid the Jousselin in favour of a KG bid. Cyrlight only went backwards in the GS-dP as they turned into the straight - no reason why he shouldn't have seen out the trip in the Jousselin.

Regardless, it's all a bit moot now anyway.
 
I think it might have been true a few years to say the French form is undervalued by UK punters, but I think with ATR and RUK often showing French jump racing, and with greater coverage in the RP (usually carry cards and spotlights for the big races) people are more familiar with the French jumps scene. Also, as you rightly said, with Anthony Bromley and the like buying up a lot of the pordigious young French talent to race over here, form lines are becoming more comparable too. From memory Mid- Dancer can give you a line to Monet's Garden through Cyrlight, via Princesse D'Anjou, which then obviously links to Kauto Star and ultimately Denman, not to mention the two milers Voy Por Ustedes and Master Minded - coming full circle back to French animals!
 
I was kinda hoping he might end up with Martin Brassil and like Nickname, who rattled up 7 French Graded HUrdle wins prior to coming to Ireland, drop to 2 miles in the mud and run his rivals silly.
 
numbersix said:
I was kinda hoping he might end up with Martin Brassil and like Nickname, who rattled up 7 French Graded HUrdle wins prior to coming to Ireland, drop to 2 miles in the mud and run his rivals silly.
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He only ever won in his own age group in France, No6 - he was probably useless. :p :D
 
Yeah, but Brassil is no Charlie-Farlie now is he? He can get a proper tune out of a horse!
 
Cyrlight was mentioned in the article I saw so presume there is still some chance of him coming back at some point.

As for Masterminded - not even the best in his age group in France. All hail the great RR ;)
 
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