Martin Pipe

U

Unsinkable Boxer

At the Start
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
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10 years ago this very day Pipe retired and Nicholls claimed his first NH trainers title (how time flies).

Interested to know thoughts on David's career now that he is effectively 10 years into the role. This season must rank as one of his toughest to date even though he has trained a festival winner!
 
Martin is the best jumps trainer of all time. It simply hasn't been the same since he finished.

David seems to lack the ammunition more each season and Martin had AP McCoy as stable jockey whereas David has.......
 
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Another difference is that Martin had David Johnston, the Ricci of his day as a patron, while David doesn't.
 
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I went to see Martin Pipe once to speak about careers in racing. A friend of my father was an owner in the yard and set it up for me.

The most interesting bit was his laboratory. I'd imagine very few yards at the time (and probably now) took such a scientific approach. There were a lot of whispered allegations of wrongdoing flying around at the time, especially with regard to blood doping, and I honestly wouldn't know how true they were.

He did strike me as the type of bloke to win at all costs, but I do think that most of his superiority at the time was down to the application of modern training methods like interval training. Put simply his horses were much fitter than everyone else's for a long period of time.
 
No smoke without fire Benny but that aside give me 2 minutes and I will add something to this post

DATE RACE CONDITIONS WGT RACE OUTCOME JOCKEY OR TS RPR
27May89 Crt 23Hd SlHcH 1K 12-0 1/10 (5L Santac 10-0) 10/11F J Lower 26 * *
17May89 Nab 16.5Fm SlHcH 1K 11-4 4/15 (11½L The Brichin 10-0) 9/2 D Richmond 26 * *
04May89 Nab 16.5GS SlHcH 1K 11-10 1/15 (5L Avionne 11-10) 16/1 D Richmond 19 * *
20Aug88 Her 19Fm HcH 1K 11-8 9/13 (33L Good Cause 10-7) 13/2 J Lower 21 * *
12Aug88 Plu 20Hd HcH 2K 10-1 5/5 (19L Tugboat 11-10) 9/2 J Lower 21 * *
* Topspeed and Racing Post Ratings are part of racingpost.com Members' Club.
 
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That I found in jig time at random....the complete career of a Pipe horse running on concrete and retired after 5 runs........dozens were the same......man was an animal
 
I remember being at Sandown Feb 1989 and Haydock park Mar 1989, my first days Nh racing in UK.
The Pipe horses were tall, narrow angular leggy types with no substance to them at all, like greyhounds.
Boy could they run though.
Which is better, to win five races with a horse in five weeks or in five years?

A former client of mine had his first horse with Arthur Moore.
The horse won a bumper first time out, a hurdle and a chase over three or four seasons before being sold.
He was placed twelve times in that period but would be targeted at a race four months ahead and trained for that day.
some years later he had a filly with Joe Crowley; she won on three successive Saturdays before the handicapper caught up.

I know which trainer he preferred.
 
harry said:
Martin is the best jumps trainer of all time. It simply hasn't been the same since he finished.

David seems to lack the ammunition more each season and Martin had AP McCoy as stable jockey whereas David has.......
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In an era when National Hunt is at an all time high Willie Mullins runs the best training organisation in the history of the game.He absolutely has the game by the balls -great at sourcing new horses,has the right owners,top class stable staff and work riders,amateurs that have ridden Grade 1 winners,unbelievable at improving horses from other stables and guaranteed to get the best from anything he trains.He will dominate for years to come,
 
LUKE said:
In an era when National Hunt is at an all time high Willie Mullins runs the best training organisation in the history of the game.He absolutely has the game by the balls -great at sourcing new horses,has the right owners,top class stable staff and work riders,amateurs that have ridden Grade 1 winners,unbelievable at improving horses from other stables and guaranteed to get the best from anything he trains.He will dominate for years to come,
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yes he will very correct
 
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I've been addicted to horse racing (Desert Orchid) since 1989
Martin Pipe's achievements will never be beaten.

people dislike him but he is the greatest of all time.
 
No one will ever beat his record they say..........Few years left in PN yet ;0) Michael Dickinson and family,(The famous Five) Tom Dreaper,(Arkle and Flyingbolt) Fulke Walwyn (Mill House and The Dickler), Paul Nichols (Kauto Star and Denman), Nicky Henderson (See You Then and Sprinter Sacre) , Fred Winter (Pendil), Gordon Richards (Sea Pigeon and One Man) Willie Mullins (Hurricane Fly and Douvan*hopefully) ,have all been the people champions which is more important to racing fans but at the end of the day their horses are remembered. Gloria Victis the best Pipe ever had will sadly be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

It's not all about numbers it how people perceive you and very few would argue the most popular and probably the greatest trainer of all time was: Dr. Vincent O’Brien
During a 52-year career, O’Brien became both the greatest jump trainer and the greatest Flat trainer. His trophy cabinet includes 3 consecutive Grand Nationals, 4 Cheltenham Gold Cups including 3 consecutive with Cottage Rake, 3 Champion Hurdles with Hatton's Grace, 6 Derbys and three Arc de Triomphes. He was truly a master trainer.

His first champion was Ballymoss, who won the 1957 St Leger and proved himself the best horse in Europe the following year, winning the King George and Arc.

During his long life as a trainer, he looked after some incredible horses including Sir Ivor, Nijinsky, The Minstrel, Try My Best, Storm Bird and Golden Fleece.

The man trained 3 consecutive winner in each of the 3 most important national hunt races and you can bet no one will ever do that again
 
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Aragorn said:
No, Mullins has the most important factor in NH success in the last 10 years. R Walsh.
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Ruby is an important part of a team but Mullins heads that team. If he wasn't there someone like Barry Geraghty would be and the machine would roll on.

Patrick Mullins is Willies assistant and deserves as much credit as Ruby as does the 20 year old stable lass who tends to Vautour and keeps a smile on his face,

Way too much emphasis on Ruby as good as he is he can be replaced Willie and Patrick Mullins would be a lot harder to replace..

PN is proof of the pudding despite Ruby's departure,The Wylies crossing the water to be with Ruby and having a yard full of much lesser anumals than he had a few years back he still retains the title which has got absolutely nothing to do with Ruby Walsh........Ruby stops riding tomorrow WPM would still be champion trainer but Ruby would struggle be champion jockey
 
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Nah, Fist.
Ruby's contribution is way more than just riding winners; he has the rare ability to weigh up a horse's needs succinctly - often on the strength of just one ride - and advise connections exactly how to plan his mount's future. It's a gift given to very few (Moore, Fallon, Dunwoody and Piggott amongst them) and should never be under-estimated in the overall success of a stable.
I predicted - when Ruby decided to return to Ireland - that the difference would show in respect of both stables, and (no matter how you dress it up) that has surely been the case, since.
Not that it's ever likely to happen, but the same scenario would undoubtedly repeat; were Ruby ever to move again.
 
Willie Mullins was Willie Mullins before Ruby Walsh who was no more than apert timer prior to May 2013 when he quit Ditchet.

He had a brilliant season 2012/13 and Ruby never rode half the winners he had that was left to Patrick and Paul Townsend.

When Ruby joined or jumped on the badwagon it was already rolling with Vautour Faugheen and Annie Power just starting to make a name for themselves.

Ruby is a great jockey we all know that but Willie Mullins is a master at his craft and if Ruby left tomorrow the winners would continue

I've still got my saddle given to me by Barry Brogan if Willie needs me to ride Douvan :0)
 
Aye, Fist.:D

Festival Leaders:
2016 Willie Mullins (7) R Walsh (7)
2015 Willie Mullins (8) R Walsh (4)
2014 Willie Mullins (4) R Walsh (3)
2013 Willie Mullins (5) R Walsh (4)*
2012 Nicky Henderson (7) BG (5)
2011 Willie Mullins (4) R Walsh (5)
2010 Nicky Henderson (3)R Walsh (3)
2009 Paul Nicholls (5) R Walsh (7)
2008 Paul Nicholls (3) R Walsh (3)
2007 Paul Nicholls (4) R Thornton (4)
2006 Paul Nicholls (3) R Walsh (3)
2005 Howard Johnson (3) G Lee (4)
2004 Paul Nicholls (4) R Walsh (3)

*IIRC, Ruby was freelance throughout his time with PN, and allowed to ride when, what, and where he wanted.
 
Fist, why do you think all those owners invested in Willie all of a sudden... Because he secured Ruby full time. He was riding for him part time throughout anyway, goes full time, Mullins dominates. Not just because Ruby is a good jockey but because people like Ricci and Wylie are smart and invest in people, they upped their investment when they had the best jock. When Nicholls had the balance of Walsh's time, he dominated.

Don't get me wrong Mullins is a tremendous trainer and an astute guy but you cannot underestimate the importance of Ruby's decision to go full time with Mullins. I'm willing to bet Ricci had a hand in it along with a few others.
 
Mullins was Champion trainer before Ruby went full time and well before Ruby was a factor in his set up.

It was Mullins that put Ruby on the map giving him his first winning ride at Cheltenham. He caused a bit of a stir when riding Blowing Wind to victory for Martin Pipe when he and Chester Barnes had their tank on it's stable companion ridden by McCoy, and it was wtf is Ruby Walsh.

There was no big Demand for Ruby when he joined PN and won the Arkle on Azertyuiop. Outside rides at the festival were rare and unsuccessful. He did ride one no hoper for Mullins I think........Then everything changed when Kauto Star and Denman arrived and they were the real stars of Team Ditchet and suddenly everyone wanted to be part of it.

Ruby rode a 2nd winner for Mullins 3 years later again in a bumper and then nothing until he won on Quevega.

By that time Denman Kauto masterminded PN and Ruby were headliners and Mullins already a huge success in Ireland himself was using Ruby every chance he got.

Along came Hurricane Fly and thousands Stars and the rest is rock n Roll.

You will hear it said often Horses make great jockeys, jockeys don't make horses great and it is very true.

I'm not knocking him because he has great hands and he's the perfect horseman for class horses..he's no McCoy in a finish but horses travel fantastically well for him.

What I am saying is Willie Mullins and Paul Nichols would still be champions without him..and Paul Townend or someone like him would be a lot richer
 
You're rewriting history, I'm afraid.

Ruby was WPM's stable jockey and then started riding for Nicholls as well. He was number one to both trainers, who were willing to share him rather than not have his services at all.
 
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Exactly, Tanlic spouting rubbish as usual. There is a season outside of Cheltenham... Where Ruby was riding mid week for Mullins for years, but you can completely forget/ignore/re-write that part of history if it fits your argument Tanlic!!!!
 
And Nicholls is still winning championships but in spite of his jockey and the situation; because as I said earlier he is undoubtedly a great trainer. He was just untouchable when Ruby was there.
 
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