Masterofthehorse sold and joins Debbie Mountain !
- Thread starter Ardross
- Start date
Fame And Glory beat GS by an easy 5 lengths - Conduit GS 8 lengths under an all out drive. Golden Sword probably did not even run up to his best level at Ascot given the first half of the season he had endured.
Fame And Glory beat Masterofthehorse by an easy 16 lengths....Masterofthehorse was beaten 6 lengths at Goodwood in a Group 3 race.
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I suspect GS 's Ascot run is as good as he is , furthermore STS thrashed Conduit under nothing like an all out drive .
I can see why some people believe that F & G was robbed of the Derby by a slow pace and like to think he is better than STS - the form however is all suggesting otherwise .
crazyhorse
At the Start
I might get some serious stick but who is she, debbie mountain? *blush*
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Don't think there's any need for embarrassment, Cat.
Don't know much about her, hardly a household name, certainly not in my 'ouse anyway.
Don't know much about her, hardly a household name, certainly not in my 'ouse anyway.
Trains in Newmarket, she has a partner from the east I believe. Kieran Fallon actually rides out a lot of her horses. She has an okay 2yo in Kahail who could run well in the first at Wolves today, but generally her stock is very limited.
walsworth
Journeyman
Felixstowe?
But we are not arguing about the relative merits of Fame And Glory and STS...but I see it is clearly clouding your judgement on the matter.
I think Masterofthehorse, Rip Van Winkle and Golden Sword (has been proved since for GS) was flattered to get so close to Sea The Stars and Fame And Glory over 12 furlongs. Simple as.
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EC1
On a break
I do disagree with that tbh, RVW and Masterofthehorse were running against a pace bias in the Derby, it was hard to close into those fast late fractions..but both did so..MOTH's run was more meritous than RVW's as well.....only good horses can do that against horses like F&G and STS....RVW has shown the merit of being able to do it..he was a lot better than the run suggested....unfortunately MOTH can't show his best now..for some reason.
does anyone think that GS is a non stayer?..the way he dropped back in the KG heavily points to that seeing as he had no reason to stop there bar for lack of stamina
If RVW ran in the Irish Derby or the King George I do not think he would have been placed. I take on board your comment about him running against a pace bias at Epsom but equally if it was a strongly run race over 12 furlongs he would not have got home. His best chance of winning at Epsom was to use his miling speed....granted a proper test he would not have had the chance to finish like he did.
EC1
On a break
not saying he would have won irish derby...just saying that for horses to run so well in the derby against that pace bias..they are decent animals..RVW at shorter..MOTH at 12f or further..his run in Ireland was extremely poor compared to his english derby run..where he was better than F&G's due to him closing against F&G in unfavourable circumstances
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chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
In both the Chester Vase and the Derby there was very little between Golden Sword and Masterofthehorse, while at the Curragh there was 15 lengths. Even allowing for the slow early pace at Epsom compared to the true gallop in the Irish Derby, it would seem that either Golden Sword had improved, or that Masterofthehorse had regressed. Their subsequent races ( Ascot and Goodwood ) would indicate that it was mostly the latter, even if Golden Sword ran below his best in the King George.
EC1
On a break
tbh
anyone thinking MOTH hasn't deteriorated since the Derby is going to struggle in this game..where you have to spot the slighest shift in form re many factors..this one looks so clear cut its totally obvious
anyone thinking MOTH hasn't deteriorated since the Derby is going to struggle in this game..where you have to spot the slighest shift in form re many factors..this one looks so clear cut its totally obvious
True... Having said that if they were trying to lose on Fame And Glory they wouldn't have ridden him much differently. There has never been much doubt that Fame And Glory is much superior to Masterofthehorse.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
She trains in Newmarket and was married to Kamil Mahdi - and assistant to him I believe - at the time that he was warned off for horse cruelty. At around this time she divorced him and pretty much cut all ties so far as I know.
davidjohnson
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 3,434
Interview with her in today's Racing Post.
EC1
On a break
MOTH was only 0.5l behind STS as a 2yo and only 2 lengths behind him in the Derby when pace biased
was F&G massively superior to a sound MOTH?
Fame and Glory ran the Irish Derby in a time six seconds faster than STS ran at Epsom, under a hands and heels finish and when the ground was good to yielding vs good at Epsom, and the Curragh trip is widely considered to be stiffer. The Irish Derby was run in a time more than a second faster than standard, the Epsom Derby was run in a time more than a second slower than standard. The first five furlongs of the Epsom Derby was run in a time 5.5 seconds slower than Sinndar's Derby which was completed in the same time. This means they made up 4.5 secs in the remaining 7 furlongs, confirming that it was run more like a mile race. It's difficult to see how a true stayer like F&G could have run to his full potential at Epsom, he did very well to finish less than 2 lengths behind STS, the same distance that was between them when STS first made his move. Conversely, STS had the race (inadvertently) set up for him, afterall, it very nearly worked out for RVW who is no stayer.
