Sheikh
At the Start
Was looking for somewhere to put this. Saw the race didn't see anything wrong.
Michael O'Leary
- Thread starter Sheikh
- Start date
I hope he wins this. Didn't see that anything was done wrong, although ATR alluded yesterday to BGH having 'barged' the runner-up. Not as in knocked it off its course or half put it through the rails, though. I couldn't see a barge taking place at all - there's the slightest coming in on each other up the straight, but that's when horses are at the end of their tether and tiring and most likely to wobble around. Did we all see different races?
G
Gearoid
Guest
The stewards will have cashed in the winning tickets on the race so it can safely be reversed.
Sheikh
At the Start
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:lol::lol::lol: Very droll, you two! And presumably as the horse passes the post, a loud bugle will sound announcing the safe return of yet another Ryanair horse! (Fair startled me to death, the only time I flew with them.)
This is a very delicate subject at the moment. Here's MY opinion. It might not be right but I think it's worth thinking about.
I haven't seen all the incidents through the Summer. But I was at Galway when Doransfirth beat Lady Granuaile. Michael Doran, who won on Raise The BEat for us, roder Doransfirth. After the last his horse began to drift out on top of LG. There was a little nudge and eventually the horse as pulled back into line and he won by a short head. My dad backed the winner. I told him he should be thrown out. Doran should have put down his stick and taken corrective action as soon as his horse started to drift, in which case there would have been no contact. Doansfirth kept the race.
Fast forward to Sunday, Slippers was not ontrack to jump the hurdle as he needed to move out a little. He yanked Big Game Hunter to the left and at the same time pulled his whip through to his right hand and gave him a smack down the shoulder. As a result, the horse moved further than I'm sure he thought and interfered with Andy Macs mount. Again, he should ave stopped riding, corrected his horse and started to ride again. But he did all of that while still riding a finish before the last flight.
The way I see it, if a jock is going to win a 10k race and there share is 1k and if they know, at worst, the will get a days suspension (3 rides @ 160 = 480 less petrol and related expenses) why the hell wouldn't they say "let's win first and worry about the stewards second". Or take it a step further and knowingly intimidate the other horse, particularly if they are small (BGH was massive compared to the other horse, or Hoopy in Galway).
Until enforcement and penalties are sufficient to put a rider off interference, I don't see why a jock wouldn't be bothered if they did interfere. In a tight finish the key is to win. Just like hitting the horse the 13th time. If you are only gonna get a day and it's a 20k race....
So I think the only way they can get around it is by increasing the number of days holidays with an entry point of three days. My mate reckons that if they are deemed to have caused interference then you decide if the horse would have won and if so you just take the jocks percentage off them. So the penalty is instant. Only last week Ger Lyons was complaining about horses being butchered coming off the bend in the Curragh. Until th penalty system is canged and enforced why would jocks worry.
As for BGH's appeal, he will prob win becasue of who he is, irrespective of whether they think it's right or wrong. I will applaud the Turf CLub is they go against O'Leary as it will prove they are not just there to keep the big guys happy.
I haven't seen all the incidents through the Summer. But I was at Galway when Doransfirth beat Lady Granuaile. Michael Doran, who won on Raise The BEat for us, roder Doransfirth. After the last his horse began to drift out on top of LG. There was a little nudge and eventually the horse as pulled back into line and he won by a short head. My dad backed the winner. I told him he should be thrown out. Doran should have put down his stick and taken corrective action as soon as his horse started to drift, in which case there would have been no contact. Doansfirth kept the race.
Fast forward to Sunday, Slippers was not ontrack to jump the hurdle as he needed to move out a little. He yanked Big Game Hunter to the left and at the same time pulled his whip through to his right hand and gave him a smack down the shoulder. As a result, the horse moved further than I'm sure he thought and interfered with Andy Macs mount. Again, he should ave stopped riding, corrected his horse and started to ride again. But he did all of that while still riding a finish before the last flight.
The way I see it, if a jock is going to win a 10k race and there share is 1k and if they know, at worst, the will get a days suspension (3 rides @ 160 = 480 less petrol and related expenses) why the hell wouldn't they say "let's win first and worry about the stewards second". Or take it a step further and knowingly intimidate the other horse, particularly if they are small (BGH was massive compared to the other horse, or Hoopy in Galway).
Until enforcement and penalties are sufficient to put a rider off interference, I don't see why a jock wouldn't be bothered if they did interfere. In a tight finish the key is to win. Just like hitting the horse the 13th time. If you are only gonna get a day and it's a 20k race....
So I think the only way they can get around it is by increasing the number of days holidays with an entry point of three days. My mate reckons that if they are deemed to have caused interference then you decide if the horse would have won and if so you just take the jocks percentage off them. So the penalty is instant. Only last week Ger Lyons was complaining about horses being butchered coming off the bend in the Curragh. Until th penalty system is canged and enforced why would jocks worry.
As for BGH's appeal, he will prob win becasue of who he is, irrespective of whether they think it's right or wrong. I will applaud the Turf CLub is they go against O'Leary as it will prove they are not just there to keep the big guys happy.
Well, I've had a good bitch about the whaling of horses where no whip penalties have been applied, because not only is that sometimes the wrong sort of memory a horse will have of his race (and might RO or RR in future, rather than undergo that treatment again, thank you), but it signals to various animal welfare supporters that it's fine for horses to get battered in public. Let's face it, if you saw a man in the street slashing his horse 10, 12, 13 times, you'd probably take the whip off him and give him a taste of his own.
Everything you say about the penalties being too flimsy is perfectly right, as is the reasoning as to why jocks will chance the odd day off. We've sadly had this discussion in the past about punishment not being enough for rough riding, intimidation of other horses, careless barging or cutting up, and nothing has been addressed by either the Irish or the British bodies, other than I think the British are tougher on the whip.
Mr Lyons is not wrong in his complaint, but it's not just the Curragh where there's mayhem. But it needs trainers to decide enough's enough of losing races where morally theirs is the victor, and to demand that penalties are made to count. If the Trainers' Federations or owners' associations won't take a stand, then there'll be anomalies galore in the future, to no-one's benefit - neither horse, punter, trainer, or owner. The jockey will not give a flying fandango when he's taking 10% of a good prize home, as you say, and will be remorseless about causing interference.
If you're on the Irish owners' committee, Cantoris, this would seem to be an apt time to raise the matter, as it's becoming a regular occurrence.
Everything you say about the penalties being too flimsy is perfectly right, as is the reasoning as to why jocks will chance the odd day off. We've sadly had this discussion in the past about punishment not being enough for rough riding, intimidation of other horses, careless barging or cutting up, and nothing has been addressed by either the Irish or the British bodies, other than I think the British are tougher on the whip.
Mr Lyons is not wrong in his complaint, but it's not just the Curragh where there's mayhem. But it needs trainers to decide enough's enough of losing races where morally theirs is the victor, and to demand that penalties are made to count. If the Trainers' Federations or owners' associations won't take a stand, then there'll be anomalies galore in the future, to no-one's benefit - neither horse, punter, trainer, or owner. The jockey will not give a flying fandango when he's taking 10% of a good prize home, as you say, and will be remorseless about causing interference.
If you're on the Irish owners' committee, Cantoris, this would seem to be an apt time to raise the matter, as it's becoming a regular occurrence.
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Narcotic Nora
Apprentice
Big Game Hunter has been reinstated as the winner.
Common bloody sense prevails! Thanks, Narco Nora, for that. It was just so not anything to warrant a reversal of placing. I'm very pleased for connections, regardless of who or what they are - I'm pleased, really, for the horse's rep and form.
The successful appeal just strengthens the jocks ability to do whatever they want near the end of the race. Did Slippers get a ban out of it?
I think the best horse probably won and I would feel sorry for any owner whose horse gets chucked out because a jock does something stupid but the stewards are now in no man land. Why would they bother disqualifying any horse. Don't bother to show up and if someone feels hard done by, let them appeal the result.
I think the best horse probably won and I would feel sorry for any owner whose horse gets chucked out because a jock does something stupid but the stewards are now in no man land. Why would they bother disqualifying any horse. Don't bother to show up and if someone feels hard done by, let them appeal the result.