Milliband vs Cameron

he only reconsidered it because of the feedback he got..ie..he was despised for the decision..the fact he made that decision initially tells people where his priorities lay..subsequent events do not put his integrity back..people saw then what a turncoat he was then...they are now seeing the other turn where he has been in bed with the tories..but now all of a sudden is turning his back on them trying to claw people back by going back to tory bashing mode..people he has been been arse licking for 4 years

MP's like Nick Clegg are the sort that really turn me off politics..seems to be devoid of principles ...just runs with whatever pack will give him some sort of power

He's shagged the Lib Dem party well and truly up the arris
 
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I think that is ridiculous ec. Why should he have backed a party that had less of the votes and seats in the election and had a leader that was pretty impossible to work with? Furthermore what good would it have done to stood aside in a high handed way and simply waited for the inevitable next election? At that time this country did not need that instability at all

He was absolutely correct to go into partnership with the Tories. Also he has very little chance of losing his seat with something like a 15000 majority. It's the same with Vincent cable in my seat. The personal vote is high and local voters like a ver high profile as well as talented mp

As for arse licking, I don't buy that at all. That's simply not true but clearly he isn't going to go into name calling in a daily basis when in coalition. How stupid would that be?

And a turncoat? From who? He was in no way obliged to work with labour. No way at all
 
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I don't believe that the lib dems are out of things at all. In the medium to longer term I can see them recovering well, especially if labour digs into to it's heartlands and drifts back towards union domination, which seems to be the case

They are and will increasingly be the natural party of opposition for many seats in the south and midlands as well as more prosperous areas of the north
 
clivex said:
but at least they are talking about tax cuts and most will believe that they will be the party that would deliver. No chance under milliband.

The party of unions, overprotected public sector and Rotherham. The leader who wont address vital issues and cant answer them when put n the spot. The most uninpsiring leader since ian duncan smith

UKIP will be bad for labour too. if they poll as some expect... i dont think they will

i see no reason why they shouldnt put votes on. Milliband is polling dreadfully and it could easily be the new kinnock scenario that when push comes to shove, voters cant see him running the country at all

No one has mentioned that ed balls would have made for a more combative and convincing leader
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Major had one big thing going for him - he wasn't Thatcher and he had only been in the job a short while . That does not apply to Cameron .
 
we used to have a high majority in our town...it disappeared in one election..MP's don't want to be complacent that is for sure

if you admire someone like him..then fair play to you...i just don't..and never will

i'm a bit old fashioned..i believe an MP should work for his constituency..thats the job in reality...i know its a bit odd expecting something like that today....these days personal ambition is number one and serving the people who vote for you is just an aside..something to think about once "me" is sorted out.

A lot of this attitude harks back to people who were young adults under Thatcher..where money started to be more important than people..me me me..don't care about your neighbour as long as "me" is earning lots of money. That generation grew up admiring the greedy in society and wanted to emulate that "value"...things like integrity and real values were seen as pussy..there is no money in principles

Clegg is in reality a political lightweight of the highest order..but in todays age..thats probably the type that will do well with the .shallow...personality obsessed media and public that they brainwash..ooh i'll vote for him..looks like a nice man etc...

The fact that Clegg doesn't stand out as of liitle political worth is a sign of the times imo...many will admire him..wrongly imo.

If he is an admirable sort..then it sort of puts a real level to the other politicians around. In racing terms...he's like a very poor Derby winner thats elevated to heights he doesn't deserve because people haven't seen a very good one....the other politicians being classed as a poor crop for that year
 
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clivex said:
I don't believe that the lib dems are out of things at all. In the medium to longer term I can see them recovering well, especially if labour digs into to it's heartlands and drifts back towards union domination, which seems to be the case

They are and will increasingly be the natural party of opposition for many seats in the south and midlands as well as more prosperous areas of the north
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we'll differ..lib dems are dead in the water for a long time..in racing terms;)..they are like the horse with 20 consecutive 3rds in their form..but some punters will still give them one more chance..even though its blindingly obvious they have no chance at anything..particularly after the last 4 years...when you sell out..you lose support.

then again..going back to previous post..if people admire no principles..no impetus.. parties..then they will vote for them
 
Ec

I find it to be the biggest myth of all that Thatcherism bought in a me me me attitude. It fact the so called wonderful working class that is mythologised to a laughable extent acting in one way and one way only pre thatcher.

It was we will screw the country for whatever we want and to hell with the consequences. That was pure greed and nothing else. Much of teh striking at the time was insane. the demands were a disgrace. This country was on its knees by every indicator going because of unions out of control. So out of control that the likes of moss Evans stabbed their own party in the back

Thank god she destroyed them
 
i agree..greed of one sort in 70's,,replaced by greed of another sort in 80's.

both disgusting..the fact you think Thatcher mentality was "good greed" would worry me..the unions were wrong in same way Thatcher was...self self self

i don't throw in with sides like you do Clive though,,thats where we differ on most stuff we talk about on here.
 
EC1 said:
we'll differ..lib dems are dead in the water for a long time..in racing terms;)..they are like the horse with 20 consecutive 3rds in their form..but some punters will still give them one more chance..even though its blindingly obvious they have no chance at anything..particularly after the last 4 years...when you sell out..you lose support.

then again..going back to previous post..if people admire no principles..no impetus.. parties..then they will vote for them
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To be honest, I have no idea how they will do. But they did increasingly well n the south over the last two decades when we had right leaning labour administrations. There are a huge number of lib dem voters down here that would never ever vote for a left leaning union dominated Labour Party.
 
before they joined the coalition they were doing ok i agree..since then its a disaster for them in regard to anyone that wants a party with principles.

i think politics these days is a minority interest..most people are more concerned with carving a living in a society where one breadwinner can no longer support a family due to an economy that is too expensive for an ordinary person..an economy geared to the 20% that own 80% of the wealth..the other 80% just struggle by each week and don't take much interest in trying to find anyone that will ever represent them politically..the 3 main parties are virtually full of the same type of politicians..lightweights towing the party line..no backbone to speak out in case it stops them moving up the greasy pole.
 
But they were damned if they did and damned if they didnt. I think they will bounce back

Won't get into the household income debate again ec. We did that before, but 80% struggling? Ok I live in a very prosperous area (lib dem though) but is "struggling" no second holiday? Or home?

Frankly a lack of interest in politics can be an indicator of a relatively contented electorate. There isn't really a lot of difference between the three main parties on many issues because we have matured as a nation to the extent that there is largely a consensus that what we have largely works
 
marble said:
I'm largely in agreement with, DO.

Their output is in-line with the capitalist society we live. They have to compete, (if not be the best broadcaster) out there, which often pushes them into an anti-left position as they literally have to go 'where the money goes'..as it were.

You will have noticed over the years the amount of broadcasters who left Sky or other broadcasters, (Simon McCoy... Ex-Sky, Charlie State Ex-Channel 5 etc) to join the Beeb.
Vice versa, many Beeb people have left the channel to join other broadcasters which epitomises the media industry and the way BBC evolves within it.

There is little ideological output on the channel (especially left).
An Atheist like broadcaster, imo.
Others organisations openly push a righter wing agenda because they're allowed to.

I often thought the Beeb was a leftie channel, but then I had a realisation that some of their programming was just sloppy and full of politically correct dogma. I don't think this can be attributed to a profound left wing agenda though.

That would be unfair to what 'the left' is supposed to be about.
They follow the fashion, IMHO!
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I think this is a bit wide of the mark in some ways

I see it this way.

The news (especially Today programme) is pretty rigourously neutral...but

The coverage of the Thatcher funeral was not. Interviews with dim students saying they were "glad she was dead" and endless wall to wall coverage of the bloody miners, who were less than 1% of the workforce in a bankrupt industry, didnt strike me as being "right wing"

would they have interviewed a tory who said the same when John smith croaked? Or an afrikaans when mandela snuffed it? No

When it comes to the so called comedy and arts, it is certainly left of centre.

I admire much about the BBC and dislike some elements (smug Radio 5 presenters for one) but to call it right wing is frankly nuts
 
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Nick Clegg has a 15k majority..thats not safe ..just looking at last nights by election result alone

in Heywood & Middleton..UKIP last night got 38.7% of the vote..in 2010 there they got 2.6% of the vote

UKIP got 2.3% of the vote in Hallamshire in 2010

if UKIP votes increase in a similar manner then Nick isn't assured of his seat at all. Thats just with the increase for UKIP..put in the disilluisonement of many Lib Dem supporters in his area..and it wouldn't be the biggest shock of all time.

in fact..i don't think many do have "safe" seats in the current climate
 
God help us if they get in again, only times I've ever been out of work is under their Government, the money they pay the public services for being poor at their job is scary.
 
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I don't believe that poll. Miles different to other recent surveys

Poll today in times says that nine out of ten voters believe labour would be better off with a different leader. Worse than foots ratings

Nothing to worry about
 
tiggers1972 said:
God help us if they get in again, only times I've ever been out of work is under their Government, the money they pay the public services for being poor at their job is scary.
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Totally agree.

I think far more than Blair or brown (I wouldn't really have been too concerned with an election win for either) ed would cave into the public sector demands. He has also shown zero interest in the private sector (unlike the predessors) and you get a sense that there is a contempt for enterprise.

Even worse you would have Harriet Harman in the administration. Surely the most inarticulate stupid meddling clueless minister in history
 
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I think all the polls suggest the "popularity" or standing of the party leader is not as decisive as many think. Ed`s ratings are poor but Labour are ahead in most polls, despite Clive`s disbelief;).
 
EC1 said:
anyone fancying backing labour to win outright with Ed in charge...just look for a gulley in the street..and throw your money down there instead
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What would you say is the likely result? And what odds would you give me for an outright Labour majority under Ed?
 
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hard to call the actual result because things change..but i've seen what happens to labour before with a leader that few had faith in..they have had two that would never have been PM's at least..Michael Foot..good guy..wrong clothes..how sad to be dismissed on something so silly..and the welsh git who was better than Ed and still couldn't get power..i didn't rate him but he was strong and turned the party round..still didn't get power..whats Ed done to get in power?..bugger all bar look weak..not a prayer in the media controlled world of brainwashing the public

i often wonder what would have happened had John Smith lived...a world without Blair for one

if you think otherwise then just go on Betfair and and lump on would be my advice
 
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Agree it`s far too difficult, and early, to call. But I think the UKIP factor will hurt the Tories far more than the Miliband factor will hurt Labour. My guess would be a narrow overall Labour majority. Not confident enough to lump on, though:).
 
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its a complete mess really isn't it?..Libs are fading..Ukip coming on..Tories treading water..but are in power and have a track record that people aren't crying about..Labour just seem to be there with not much happening and Rotherham as an advert their sort of politics..not too appealing
 
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