Murtagh Replaces Fallon
- Thread starter Ardross
- Start date
Bar the Bull
At the Start
I believe it had everything to do with external events.
But of course, miscarriages of justice only happen against bad people, so 4uck him.
But of course, miscarriages of justice only happen against bad people, so 4uck him.
U
useful
Guest
Fallon was treated for alcohol related problems in early 2003, in advance of the race fixing case being brought against him.
He also has a history of controversy, losing the high profile Warren Place retainer.
I think it is no coincidence the drug offences came in France where they seem to be more on the ball in dealing with cocaine related rule breaches. I suspect he was introduced to the drug by the jockeys over where the weighing room culture for the drug is greater than here. I imagine the drug is more appealing as a weight loss tool than alcohol which had clearly caused him problems in the past.
I am no expert but I do not percieve cocaine as being a drug used by people to deal with depression or stress, which seems to be the thrust of your argument Gareth?
He also has a history of controversy, losing the high profile Warren Place retainer.
I think it is no coincidence the drug offences came in France where they seem to be more on the ball in dealing with cocaine related rule breaches. I suspect he was introduced to the drug by the jockeys over where the weighing room culture for the drug is greater than here. I imagine the drug is more appealing as a weight loss tool than alcohol which had clearly caused him problems in the past.
I am no expert but I do not percieve cocaine as being a drug used by people to deal with depression or stress, which seems to be the thrust of your argument Gareth?
Cocaine is certainly used as a mood changing drug. If a jock wanted merely to supress appetite there are lots of medicinal drugs which do that, inc amphetemines and dedicated slimming drugs. Given cocaine's incredible capacity for an instant 'lift' and its well know addictive qualities, no-one would take it 'just' as an appetite supressent.
U
useful
Guest
Perhaps not, although amphetamines such as speed are just as addictive. I understand that the Super Modelling industry is rife with coke abuse for the purpose of keeping weight under control.
Yes there are slimming pills, but if introduced to Coke, the added benefit of the initial high may seem more appealing to the user.
I am not advocating its use as an appetite suppressant - it is an evil drug (anyone see Alex James - ex Blur- on Panorama on Monday?). However I simply don't buy the inference that Fallon was somehow driven to it as a result of the race fixing trial. With his history of alcohol abuse I think there was more chance that if he needed a drug to lean on during that period alcohol would have been a more likely place to start.
Oh, and by the way I don't mean to sound unsympathetic either. If the man has serious issues in terms of addiction I wish him every success in winning the very hard battle with them.
Yes there are slimming pills, but if introduced to Coke, the added benefit of the initial high may seem more appealing to the user.
I am not advocating its use as an appetite suppressant - it is an evil drug (anyone see Alex James - ex Blur- on Panorama on Monday?). However I simply don't buy the inference that Fallon was somehow driven to it as a result of the race fixing trial. With his history of alcohol abuse I think there was more chance that if he needed a drug to lean on during that period alcohol would have been a more likely place to start.
Oh, and by the way I don't mean to sound unsympathetic either. If the man has serious issues in terms of addiction I wish him every success in winning the very hard battle with them.
EC1
On a break
i can't really see what is "embarassing" about anything related to drugs in this day and age....and I'm what would be classed as "old fashioned"
it was reported on the news the other night that 800,000 people in this country use cocaine
of course absolutely none of those users own or train horses :shy:
maybe KF is a lost cause...but he isn't exactly a rare find in the cocaine user field is he.
flawed people will always get criticised by people fortunate enough to have no vices whatsover.
one of fallons biggest mistakes was getting involved with one woman...that alone was enough to turn 75% of those within racing to hate him...some of those had the power to punish him...and did.
anyone that thinks that 3 years under the cosh from a trumped up trial is easy... wants to try it
it's so easy to criticise from an ivory tower
not meaning you here Useful...you seem to hold a fair attitude towards this
it was reported on the news the other night that 800,000 people in this country use cocaine
of course absolutely none of those users own or train horses :shy:
maybe KF is a lost cause...but he isn't exactly a rare find in the cocaine user field is he.
flawed people will always get criticised by people fortunate enough to have no vices whatsover.
one of fallons biggest mistakes was getting involved with one woman...that alone was enough to turn 75% of those within racing to hate him...some of those had the power to punish him...and did.
anyone that thinks that 3 years under the cosh from a trumped up trial is easy... wants to try it
it's so easy to criticise from an ivory tower
not meaning you here Useful...you seem to hold a fair attitude towards this
rorydelargy
At the Start
How very revealing.
Did he though? I thought usually informed opinion had decided it was another [American] jockey, if you mean the 'shower incident' LOL. There have been lots of 'incidents' involving Fallon, but let's fact it most flat jocks aren't too bright by all accounts, and anyone following the profession is liable to have odd personal quirks, it's such a tough business in personal terms
I was once sued in a breach of contract case [publishing] and the other side backed down after four years of attrition, just a week before it came to trial. It was an utter nightmare, in terms of stress and effect on my career and bank balance. So I have a lot of sympathy with KF assuming he was innocent of all charges..... Which I can't quite, in the sense he was taking huge risks by association, given the kind of people he was in communication with
rorydelargy
At the Start
Did he though? I thought usually informed opinion had decided it was another [American] jockey, if you mean the 'shower incident' LOL. There have been lots of 'incidents' involving Fallon, but let's fact it most flat jocks aren't too bright by all accounts, and anyone following the profession is liable to have odd personal quirks, it's such a tough business in personal terms
I was once sued in a breach of contract case [publishing] and the other side backed down after four years of attrition, just a week before it came to trial. It was an utter nightmare, in terms of stress and effect on my career and bank balance. So I have a lot of sympathy with KF assuming he was innocent of all charges..... Which I can't quite, in the sense he was taking huge risks by association, given the kind of people he was in communication with [/b][/quote]
The jockey was allegedly Irish, but received wisdom suggests it was someone other than Fallon.
What a job for a flat jockey of his age and experience to get. The older horses, the less obvious but lightly raced 3 year olds and a bunch of two year olds that should be back to their usual strenght given the big increase in purchases at the sales this year by team Coolmore.
He didn't handle the pressure of being first choice stable jock to Fanshawe [in the Soviet Song area] so I'm not sure how he's going to handle this. That was his first season in England mind you, and his wife had new twins iirc, so he will no doubt be settled better and happier back home in Ireland
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
This kind of feels like Rafa Benitez replacing Fergie at Old Trafford.
Powerscourt
At the Start
From Sporting life
William Hill have installed Johnny Murtagh as their 6-4 favourite to win his the Irish Flat jockeys' championship in the coming season.
Murtagh's appointment as number one jockey to the Coolmore operation means he is once again in a position to launch a strong assault on the title.
Hills are also offering odds on how many Classics Murtagh will win for his new employers next season.
They offer 5-4 that he wins none, even-money just one, and 5-1 that he wins two or more.
Tony Kenny from Hills commented: "Johnny is a fantastic jockey and his new job at Ballydoyle looks tailor made for him.
"Johnny has already won four British Classics, and with the backing of Ballydoyle, it looks almost certain that he'll add to that tally."
2008 Irish Flat jockeys' championship; William Hill bet: 6-4 J Murtagh, 13-8 P Smullen, 3-1 D McDonagh, 12-1 F Berry, 33-1 K Manning. Others On Request
Listen could be his best three year old this year.
William Hill have installed Johnny Murtagh as their 6-4 favourite to win his the Irish Flat jockeys' championship in the coming season.
Murtagh's appointment as number one jockey to the Coolmore operation means he is once again in a position to launch a strong assault on the title.
Hills are also offering odds on how many Classics Murtagh will win for his new employers next season.
They offer 5-4 that he wins none, even-money just one, and 5-1 that he wins two or more.
Tony Kenny from Hills commented: "Johnny is a fantastic jockey and his new job at Ballydoyle looks tailor made for him.
"Johnny has already won four British Classics, and with the backing of Ballydoyle, it looks almost certain that he'll add to that tally."
2008 Irish Flat jockeys' championship; William Hill bet: 6-4 J Murtagh, 13-8 P Smullen, 3-1 D McDonagh, 12-1 F Berry, 33-1 K Manning. Others On Request
Listen could be his best three year old this year.
U
useful
Guest
Good point Headstrong. Murtagh is hugely popular in Ireland, but for me he is good when the pressure is off, but in the spotlight he cracks. A bit like Spencer.
I think it is a knee jerk reaction, and they should have gone for Soumillion.
Also, considering the size and power of Coolmore they ought to be doing a bit more to nurture a second and third jockey, who is groomed to step into the number 1 slot when something like this happens. Heffernan is obviously not up to the job so why have him as No.2? Why not look at a decent claimer and bring him along to be the natural successor? A "jockeys youth policy"?
I think it is a knee jerk reaction, and they should have gone for Soumillion.
Also, considering the size and power of Coolmore they ought to be doing a bit more to nurture a second and third jockey, who is groomed to step into the number 1 slot when something like this happens. Heffernan is obviously not up to the job so why have him as No.2? Why not look at a decent claimer and bring him along to be the natural successor? A "jockeys youth policy"?
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Their business is in developing horses, not in developing jockeys.
They will always get the best jockey that they want for their horses.
They could probably have gone for McEvoy, Moore or Soumillon if they wanted.
They will always get the best jockey that they want for their horses.
They could probably have gone for McEvoy, Moore or Soumillon if they wanted.
I totally disagree with that. At the run of the mill meetings he is barely better than a run of the mill jockey, at the major meetings he is a huge asset. On a Group 1 horse I would only prefer Fallon or Kinane. Coolmore seem to agree with me on that anyway.
granger
Senior Jockey
I'm at a loss here as well
Got this via e-mail - not sure of the original source....
Owner Willie McKay would be "delighted" to give Kieren Fallon the opportunity of embarking upon a new career as a trainer.
McKay has advertised for a handler to take over the lease at Martin Grange Stables near Doncaster as current incumbent Danny Murphy's contract expires this week.
While Fallon does not yet hold a trainer's licence, McKay told the Daily Mail: "I don't think someone like Kieren Fallon should take a back seat in anyone else's operation.
"He has enough image to be his own man. He has a million people calling him offering support.
"He is a genius with horses and it would be a tragedy if he wasn't given a second chance."
Jockey Fallon was last Friday banned for 18 months after failing a drugs test for a second time in France last summer.
His position as number-one rider to the Coolmore operation was also given to Johnny Murtagh on Tuesday.
"There are plenty of ways this could be sorted," added McKay.
"We could employ someone with a trainer's licence while Kieren gets his own.
"I would be delighted to lease my yard to him if that's what he wants - I have plenty of backroom staff."
Fallon, who visited McKay's yard on Monday, is awaiting an appeal hearing against the worldwide riding ban he received after testing positive for a banned substance at Deauville in August 2007.
Owner Willie McKay would be "delighted" to give Kieren Fallon the opportunity of embarking upon a new career as a trainer.
McKay has advertised for a handler to take over the lease at Martin Grange Stables near Doncaster as current incumbent Danny Murphy's contract expires this week.
While Fallon does not yet hold a trainer's licence, McKay told the Daily Mail: "I don't think someone like Kieren Fallon should take a back seat in anyone else's operation.
"He has enough image to be his own man. He has a million people calling him offering support.
"He is a genius with horses and it would be a tragedy if he wasn't given a second chance."
Jockey Fallon was last Friday banned for 18 months after failing a drugs test for a second time in France last summer.
His position as number-one rider to the Coolmore operation was also given to Johnny Murtagh on Tuesday.
"There are plenty of ways this could be sorted," added McKay.
"We could employ someone with a trainer's licence while Kieren gets his own.
"I would be delighted to lease my yard to him if that's what he wants - I have plenty of backroom staff."
Fallon, who visited McKay's yard on Monday, is awaiting an appeal hearing against the worldwide riding ban he received after testing positive for a banned substance at Deauville in August 2007.
U
useful
Guest
Nothing like being opportunistic!!!!
Good luck to them!! Although I hope Fallon sits out the ban and returns to the saddle.
As regards Murtagh - I lost money on him during his stint riding for Fanshawe, so my view is driven in part by my pocket!
Also I still cannot believe he lost the World Hurdle to My Way De Solzen!!!!!
Nobody can concede he has won top races on top horses, but at Ballydoyle he will be riding well backed horses on a dialy basis. This requires nerves of steel and superb tactical timing and awareness. I am yet to be convinced Murtagh has the mental strength to succeed in the role - we know he, like Fallon, has already fallen under the spell of the demon drink once. Who is to say this will not happen again.
Spencer cracked under the pressure, and he had no "form" in terms of addiction/mental problems as far as I know.
Considering the worth of the Coolmore empire I am surprised they are prepared to take the risk. We shall see.
As for Ryan Moore, I really don't think he would have walked away from the Stoute retainer. Stoute "nurtured" Moore on a "softly softly" basis, and the partnership is now blossoming. Moore would have been mad to jump into the Ballydoyle cauldron at this stage of his career. Once he has established himself at Stoute's and won a few more titles maybe then he could go for the top jobs of either Ballydoyle or Godolphin - Frankie wont go on forever !
Good luck to them!! Although I hope Fallon sits out the ban and returns to the saddle.
As regards Murtagh - I lost money on him during his stint riding for Fanshawe, so my view is driven in part by my pocket!
Also I still cannot believe he lost the World Hurdle to My Way De Solzen!!!!!
Nobody can concede he has won top races on top horses, but at Ballydoyle he will be riding well backed horses on a dialy basis. This requires nerves of steel and superb tactical timing and awareness. I am yet to be convinced Murtagh has the mental strength to succeed in the role - we know he, like Fallon, has already fallen under the spell of the demon drink once. Who is to say this will not happen again.
Spencer cracked under the pressure, and he had no "form" in terms of addiction/mental problems as far as I know.
Considering the worth of the Coolmore empire I am surprised they are prepared to take the risk. We shall see.
As for Ryan Moore, I really don't think he would have walked away from the Stoute retainer. Stoute "nurtured" Moore on a "softly softly" basis, and the partnership is now blossoming. Moore would have been mad to jump into the Ballydoyle cauldron at this stage of his career. Once he has established himself at Stoute's and won a few more titles maybe then he could go for the top jobs of either Ballydoyle or Godolphin - Frankie wont go on forever !
U
useful
Guest
Melendez, are you telling me that Tabor, at least, doesn't instigate gambles on their horses in maidens and conditions races prior to elevating to group class?
Yes, education is important, but the stable are famous for backing their own off the boards especially at the Curragh.
I distinctly remember Kevin O'Brien saying on ATR several times that a Ballydoyle maiden well backed (into 6/4 and lower) at the Curragh means the stable are on.
Yes, Coolmore's main target is Group races to boost breeding values. But as we saw with Spencer the rot can set in in the rnu of the mill races, confidence drains away, and things start to go wrong in the pattern events as well.
I am being extremely subjective in my conclusions about Murtagh - time will tell if I am right.
Yes, education is important, but the stable are famous for backing their own off the boards especially at the Curragh.
I distinctly remember Kevin O'Brien saying on ATR several times that a Ballydoyle maiden well backed (into 6/4 and lower) at the Curragh means the stable are on.
Yes, Coolmore's main target is Group races to boost breeding values. But as we saw with Spencer the rot can set in in the rnu of the mill races, confidence drains away, and things start to go wrong in the pattern events as well.
I am being extremely subjective in my conclusions about Murtagh - time will tell if I am right.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Not sure if it's Tabor Useful, if the horse has just gone to post there's probably a good chance it's someone else connected with the yard.