Muslims Petition Against A Mosque

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clivex

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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...1939889,00.html

There are real fears amongst the muslim community that the fundamentalist sect of Tablighi Jamaart ferments extremist views. There is very interesting story which should be highlighted more (not on BBC website at all...strangely) becuase it quickly dispels the myth that all muslims are of the same world view and is perhaps a genuine first move from that community against the hard line

That is good news IMO

But as for Ken livingstone

LONDON'S FAR-LEFT MAYOR KEN LIVINGSTONE says he is "very much in favor" of the scheme. It is fair to say that Livingstone's entire career has been concerned with culture-war against British institutions and identity. Even Tony Blair, whose record on these matters is pretty bad, was desperately against Livingstone gaining political power in London.

Livingstone's background is relevant here for other reasons as well. He has called Ariel Sharon a war criminal, told a BBC interviewer that it was "wrong to brand a British Muslim boy a terrorist if he got involved in Palestinian violence against Israel" and claimed that the "Jewish boys in Britain" had contributed to the "slaughter" of Palestinians. He was temporarily suspended from office for having taunted a Jewish journalist about Nazism.

When asked if there was a possibility he himself had Jewish blood, Livingstone replied: "I could be a self-hater, couldn't I?" -- which looks like a boast that he hates Jews. Where Rome's mayor Walter Veltroni (who began as a communist) led 10,000 Italians in a torchlight protest outside the Iranian Embassy in Rome after Iranian President Ahmadinejad called for the annihilation of Israel, Livingstone did nothing.

When Muslim Brotherhood cleric Yousuf Al-Qaradawi -- who has vilified Jews, claimed there are no civilians in Israel and reportedly said of the London tube bombings: "I consider this type of martyrdom operation as an evidence of God's justice" -- visited London, Livingstone (against the advice of moderate Muslim leaders) received him as a personal guest, stating: "Here is the force that we need to engage with if we are to actually get a dialogue." When the black chairman of the British Commission for racial equality, Trevor Phillips, said he was concerned about the failures of multiculturalism, Livingstone jeered that he expected Phillips soon to join the racist British National Party.

You have to ask why we put up with a racist mayor who seems to actively support the more extreme elements of islam against the moderates?
 
You are deluded if you think Ken is a racist.He clearly isn't and the whole thing with the jewish journalist was just word games.
I will say one thing about Ken -he wanted to talk to Sinn Fein in the 80's long before most British politicians realized that was the way to go.
 
You are deluded if you do not think that Ken is anti semitic.

You are out of touch if you think that that was the only comment

Of course, equally if he had told a black person to go back to bongo bongo land that would be racist but telling jews to "try your luck under the ayatollahs" isnt

as for his talks with the IRA...did he talk to the unionists? Of course not. best desription ive heard for him si a "left wing bigot"

Just like now, he simple mindedly split the world into goodies and baddies and gets a six form students kick out of supporting those who target and kill and main innocent people
 
American Spectator which is as right wing as the British one. Perhaps more so

But nothing in it that wasnt known already. All the quotes are familiar

the whole thing with the jewish journalist was just word games.
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Jesus. The stuff people want to believe
 
Originally posted by clivex@Nov 27 2006, 02:22 PM
American Spectator which is as right wing as the British one. Perhaps more so

But nothing in it that wasnt known already. All the quotes are familiar

the whole thing with the jewish journalist was just word games.
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Jesus. The stuff people want to believe
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Like Mr Justice Collins
 
Clivex, perhaps you didn't see this letter of reply to the Colebatch article in the following issue:

SPEAKING FOR KEN
Re: Hal Colebatch's Imam Livingstone, I Presume?:

I read Mr. Colebatch's article on the mosque in Newham with interest. With interest, but also with disappointment, as I'm afraid the article in badly informed in most respects.

As yet, there is no planning application for a mosque at the West Ham site. Developers are apparently working up a scheme that may, or may not, be granted planning permission by the planning authority, the Thames Gateway Urban Development Corporation (UDC). Until a proposal is even aired, it's pure speculation as to how large a building they propose.

Ken Livingstone has not, to my knowledge, said a word about the scheme. The quotes you attribute to him were originally attributed to a bureaucrat by the scheme's planners in the London Development Agency, Ken Livingstone's Agency for business and jobs, in a badly sourced and inaccurate article in London's Evening Standard newspaper.

There is no planning application for a mosque pending. Ken Livingstone hasn't said a word about the scheme. If a proposal is forthcoming it may, or may not, receive planning permission. If a planning application is agreed, then the size of the scheme may be subject of planning restrictions. And it may or not then be built. But then that's not really as interesting is it?
-- Cllr. James Butler
Labour Group Press Officer
Newham, London
UK
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Fair enough. Seems the quotes are more accurately attributed to Ken's LDA

BUT Ali Mangera, the architect designing the new centre, said he and Tablighi Jamaat had had several high-level meetings with LDA officials, including one with Tony Winterbottom, the director of regeneration and development. "They are all very much in favour of the scheme. In particular they want to see an Islamic landmark," he said.
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Knowing how close Ken is to and how outspoken he is bout development issues, I cannot believe that this wasnt said without his encouragement
 
Evening Standard

Hardly much point in doubting it given that theres no sign of the LDA opposing the development
 
Would you expect there be a sign of opposition from the LDA before plans are submitted? Should they be opposing the construction of any mosque as a matter of principle?
 
And conversly should they be supporting such a proposal before the plans have been submitted? Which is what they have done

Of course they shouldnt oppose any Mosque. I can see what you are trying to get at.......dont bother

This is a very substantial in your face development with links to an organisation some see (and others would say are confirmed) as having links to terrorism.

And its not significant to you that many moderate muslims are strongly against this?
 
And conversly should they be supporting such a proposal before the plans have been submitted? Which is what they have done
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You have no proper evidence for that statement.

It is perfectly normal for planning authorities to discuss schemes with their promoters before plans are submitted. It saves time and reduces conflict if the developer understands in advance what is likely to be acceptable or not. The planning authority has no legal remit to consider the politics of the scheme's promoters, but they do have a duty to ensure that any scheme submitted will be of good aesthetic quality.

The political connotations of the scheme is for others to consider, but there is no evidence that Ken Livingstone has given it his support.
 
Well you better suggest that to the Mosques architect because hes the one who stated this


You have no proper evidence for that statement
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ill just assume hes a liar then shall i?

Andrew Gilligan replies

I have in front of me a statement from Jonathan Kinsella in the LDA press office, dated July 13, 2006, saying that the LDA is "helping facilitate" the proposed development. It continues:"We have been talking to the leaders of the [Islamic Centre development] since the early stages of the [Olympic] bid to look at how the plans for the Centre could complement and fit around the requirements of the 2012 Games... Discussions are still ongoing, and we're confident that we will reach a private agreement with the Centre."

As well as quoting extracts from this statement, my July Evening Standard piece also included a quote from Ali Mangera, the architect of the mosque.

He and/or the Tablighi Jamaat representative,



Abdul Kalik, had had many meetings with the LDA, including its Director of Regeneration and Development, Tony Winterbottom. Mangera was quoted as saying: "They are all very much in favour of the scheme. In particular they want to see an Islamic landmark." In a quote not used in the piece Abdul Kalik also told me: "They really want to have a building of this type." No complaint was received about my July article.
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The pretty well known Standard Journalist. Is he a liar too then?
 
My guess is the architect is overstating the position.

The quotes from the LDA guy are about technical aspects. They probably also stressed to the promoters that if a large mosque is to be built it ought to be of high aesthetic quality, in other words "a landmark building".

Which is different from supporting the scheme.
 
Possibly right about the architect.

I could however imagine many of Livingstones like minded lackies getting excited about such an in your face seemingly anti west development and the architect taking that away with him.

A personal opinion would be that Ken would back the scheme given his (and many others on the far left's) flirtation with fundamentalist islam, but i suspect we will never know for sure
 
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