My daughter and I

M

montyracing2

At the Start
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Apr 17, 2005
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I remember telling you all about my last Christmas event when my daughter, Sarah, announced 'gap years ambitions, a few weeks in Ibiza with my mates ambitions etc' and that the celebrations came to an interesting halt with the words 'over my dead body' (perhaps a little bit worse).

How kind you all were in putting things into perspective and I gave way a little without giving Sarah free reign.

Anyway, things have turned out well in that she eventually received an offer to read medicine at BSMS (Brighton) and has got the 'A-level' grades she needed. Commiserations to any disappointed student.

I should start a thread outlining my feelings of discontent at :

a) the messages of dumbing down of A-levels, I took keen interest in all my childrens' efforts and the questions are of similar levels of difficulty as I remember 30 years ago (in maths, chemistry and biology). The major difference being the level of IT support they now have.

b) the way in which universities select students, the more I have understood the more they seem to be favouring the 'better-offs' whilst publicly stating their support of students from poorer backgrounds.

maybe .....


MR2
 
I'm glad to hear it, Monty. I must admit that while a gap year wouldn't worry me, Ibiza would - enormously!

As for exams, I too get fed up with people whingeing about how easy exams have become. There are two truths that need to be addressed here.

Firstly, it is true that the level of knowledge required to pass certain exams is different from a generation or two ago but the skills and understanding levels are, if anything, much higher. For example, when I did Higher French in 1972 I needed to know the Past Historic and Imperfect Subjunctive. It did me f*ck all good when, after three years at Uni I arrived in France unable to speak a word. Nowadays, my Higher French students can rabbit on for a good ten minutes on a range of topics relevant to their life experience. I know which system I prefer.

Secondly, one of the reasons they 'know' less is because they're taught less and they're taught less in secific subjects because of the broadening of the curriculum, which in turn means they have less time per week on most subjects. For example, I had about 4 hours of French per week from first year (compared with less than three nowadays) and 5 (now three rising to just under 5 in fifth year) from third year. Overall, that's about the equivalent of an extra year. I wasn't allowed to do technical subjects or home economics because I was in the top (academic) set. Kids nowadays have experience of a wider range of subjects therefore have access to a wider range of knowledge. The compromise is tha they don't learn as much in depth.

Thirdly, I don't care what anyone says, students work much harder than my generation ever did. Maybe they feel they need to but they do it and they deserve every success going.

Fourthly, the quality of teaching in schools is at an all-time high on account the range of quality assurance measures embedded into school policy.

Another thing that has to be borne in mind is that a recent experiment in which Primary 7 kids were taught the same as a typical class of 50 years ago showed that the current 11 year olds did every bit as well as their predecessors when tested on that specific knowledge.
 
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I'm glad you, too, would be uneasy about IBIZA because Sarah announced at teatime that because she doesn't need to go through clearing (my main reason for not agreeing to 'two weeks with her mates') they are flying on WEDNESDAY. All I need now is for my wife to toddle off and book the very next flight there!

MR2
 
Desert Orchid said:
Thirdly, I don't care what anyone says, students work much harder than my generation ever did. Maybe they feel they need to but they do it and they deserve every success going.
Click to expand...

I was educated in Scotland, and took Higher English and History. I did virtually feck all work, just revised like mad the last couple of days before the exam and passed, but passed with average grades. If i`d worked harder i`d have done a lot better and for me that is the main difference nowadays - youngsters are taught better and have a better work ethic. I suppose most of them want to go to Uni, something that was unobtainable in my day.
 
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Well done to Sarah, Monty! If it helps, I took a gap year after uni and felt I benefited from it far more than I would have done if I'd gone at 18 - you can always try that argument!
 
I didn't take a gap year, and after three years of a four year degree course I was pretty much burnt out. I effectively took one a couple of years after graduating (enabled by a nice redundancy payment), and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
 
Interesting points about the newer generations working harder. I'm not so sure myself. Personally, I dossed around virtually full-time (to the point of almost failing my junior Cert outright), until really sticking my nose to the grind-stone my last year and I ended up doing nicely on my Leaving (535 points). Seems so long ago now but it's really not!

One point I would make is that the "testing-heavy" system is unfair to a large number of students. Some students deal better with the pressure of exams than others. I had mates who worked consistently harder than I did but didn't do as well in the ned because they didn't deal with the exam as well. It's easy for me to say looking back (asit would certainly have resulted in me not doing as well as I ended up doing) but I think more value should be placed on coursework and consistentency.
 
The difficulty with course work, in my opinion, is that too many pupils get too much help from teachers. I reckon in some subjects 70-80% of pupils' 'course work' is actually the teachers' work.

The other unfair thing about placing too much value on course work is that a well-to-do family is much more likely than a poorer one to be able to pay a tutor to help out, giving the 'rich' an unfair advantage.
 
Both valid points, Desert Orchid (neither of which had previously crossed my mind tbh). Surely the point about a tutor is the same (albeit to a lesser extent) for an exam though.

My point about the system still stands though. Perhaps it would be better if there was continuous assesment throughout the year (unit/topic tests, in-class timed essays etc.). I can tell you first hand that some students (not me mind you) were disadvantaged by the exam-oriented system. This too is unfair IMO.
 
I did one of the easiest degrees in the world (at Trinity), so I didn't really need a gap year. I learnt how to gamble and play cards.

However, I think that a gap year is a good idea, for the burn-out reasons mentioned by Gareth.
 
I think there's a huge difference nowadays between schools - some seem to be doing a terrific job but too many of them seem to have no aspirations for their kids and are churning out semi-literate or illiterate kids with no verbal or written skills, which will limit their options terribly in the future. Such vast gaps in the attainments of school-leavers does more than anything else imo to perpetuate artificial 'class barriers'

Why was it 'unthinkable' to go to uni in your day Euro? I came from a middle class background but no-one in my family had ever been to uni, and I was discouraged, if anything. My school was hugely supportive though, so I made it :) - that was the mid 60s.

I took a gap year - not 'fashionable' then but I'd done Oxbridge entrance exams on top of A levels, which meant staying an extra autumn term. then I went travelling..... I found it hard to knuckle back down to work and study after that; but going straight to university after the slog of four A levels woudl have been awful

Two weeks in Ibiza won't do your kid any harm if she's been brought up sensibly. Try to make sure she spends time in the north of the island, exploring the age-old rural culture and landscapes, and doesn't just hang about San Antonio getting blasted! It's a really wonderful island if you avoid the trashy/touristy/rip-off bits. The main thing to beware of is getting into a car at this time of year with people who are clearly doped or drunk, there are a lot of accidents....
 
There is a TV programme on Sky at the moment all about Ibiza 2008! I think Headstrongs suggestions are good. Parts of the island are clearly steeped in history and very beautiful but the drunken antics of mostly the British in the "resorts" should be avoided. No one minds a night out with a few mates and a few cheap drinks but if this TV programme is based remotely on truth, then it looks absolutely horrific. It's not just the cars to be avoided at night time in these places but scooters or anything on two wheels! The police have a no nonsense policy but many of the British on holiday are an absolute disgrace. The hospitals are just full of drunks and those injured from car accidents, punch ups, falling on broken glass etc. Mind you - sounds like some of the places in the UK on a Saturday night.
 
Erm, I'd hazard a guess that a group of 18 year olds wouldn't be visiting Ibiza for the culture aspect!! I'd even go so far as to suggest that possibly all they do want to do is lie on the beach then head out and drink!
 
Not quite sure that my comfort zone concerned with 'daughter in Ibiza' has been made any more relaxed with all your views.

Sarah is saying good-bye to newly found boyfriend of a couple of months at the moment so I'm hoping she feels so upset at leaving him that she might change her mind about this trip. Must admit to sowing some seeds of doubt in her head by mentioning how he might 'have changed' when she gets back and inferring how he might 'play' while the cat's away.

So cruel but it was my birthday party and I was a bit drunk.

MR2
 
Dunno if that was a particularly wise ploy, MR2.

She might decide to rattle every waiter in her hotel, to get back at yer man for something he hasn't even done.

Please note that I am in no way suggesting that your daughter is the waiter-rattling kind under normal circumstances - I'm sure she is a princess.

Dr Grass.
 
Your daughter sounds very sensible to me Montyracing2 - you shouldn´t worry about what she´s going to do in Ibiza, young folk sleep all day, sunbathe and go out on the lash at night. It´ll likely be the same at University for the next 3 years - hard work and hard play.
 
I mentioned this to my daughter to see her reaction.

"There's no way I'd go to Ibiza, and certainly not with my friends. All they'd do is drink all day and night and expect me to look after them. I'd much rather come on holiday with you and mum," was the reassuring reply. Bless.
 
Ok , I have two boys but I'd like to think I'd have the same reaction if I had daughters.

My 2 are 18 and 20 and from October will both be studying History at York.I have done my best to help them develop into decent young men who are now in the position to make their own choices. Of course they wi want to go the party places on holiday with their friends, I have not advised against their going as I trust them. We discuss some of the dangers and problems that can arise and they have been away. So far as I know they have enjoyed themselves and probably done some silly things. I definitly know that neither will have done things that would offend normal people.
They are old enough to fight in Afghanistan within weeks of joining up so they should be old enough to make their own decisions. Unfortunately I can't simply download all the lessons I have learned over the years but I try to help them make informed decisions. Surely that is the correct role for a parent.By not meddling I get the opportunity to advise, it's a good trade.
 
When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I took a lot of drugs, drank to excess, got arrested, never went to lectures, gambled loads and lots more.

I still graduated from Trinity with a good degree, went to London to work for an investment bank for seven years, and have a clean driving license.

It is more to do with the character of the young person than what they are doing. My messing was just a natural way for me to let off steam, as no woman would let me have sex with them
 
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