I think I'm right in saying that you need a license even if you do not have a tv set, but have a tv card and watch tv channels through your pc. and by the way, all vendors of television sets are now required by law to supply the licensing authority with names and addresses that tv's are sold to.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Yes Dave its been in force for yonks that.... but no one has to, if buying a P/C so that possibly shoots down your argument with regards P/C's..... but on a technicality they possibly could or would prosecute to make a monkey of someone and win their case and open the door to more coffers through just that?
JOE no point really if he has not got a T/V is there?.................
BrianH
At the Start
If you read my posting, I explained it in some detail. The BBC has the rights to show Scottish football in Scotland only. There was a time when through satellite or cable you could only pick up BBC Scotland in Scotland, but, thanks to demand from ex-pat Scots living everywhere else that satellite is broadcast (and there are quite a few of those) BBC went unencrypted on the BBC Scotland channel, so it can now be seen everywhere. If they showed Scottish football on BBC Scotland they would breaking their contract as they would be broadcasting it to many places to which they don't have the rights. They have said that when negotiations come round again, they will go for the right to show the football on satellite too.
Meanwhile, they point out that viewers in Scotland can watch it by switching to analogue. Which you could do if you got yourself an aerial, even an indoor one if you have restrictions on outdoor aerials where you live.
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Phil Waters
Guest
I did read your detailed explanation earlier.
Does the law regarding tv licences and in particular the viewing of broadcasts assume that the viewer has a tv with an aerial of some sort? If not, do they claim that you can watch tv without an aerial antenna to transmit the pictures?
If they don't assume this, do they still maintain that even if you cannot watch what is being broadcasted, because you do not have the means to do so (an aerial), you are still liable to pay for a licence?
Does the law regarding tv licences and in particular the viewing of broadcasts assume that the viewer has a tv with an aerial of some sort? If not, do they claim that you can watch tv without an aerial antenna to transmit the pictures?
If they don't assume this, do they still maintain that even if you cannot watch what is being broadcasted, because you do not have the means to do so (an aerial), you are still liable to pay for a licence?
BrianH
At the Start
I'd give up on the law studies - it's as simple as this: if you have a television you need to have a television licence.
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Phil Waters
Guest
Is that because it really is as simple as that - or because we've not to chew gum in class? 
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
yes via cabel its still charged if you don't use an arial................
A
Ardross
Guest
It is as simple as that .
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
I must tell you about this it is no way a slant on anybody at all in the story but I found it as being funny......
A friend of a friend has a downs syndrome child? a young man (Roy) then about 25 yrs old when this happened, and he can communicate with people but is quite loud, unfortunately as had to be taught in a special school most of his life etc, always called his mum by her Christian name June.
They were forewarned that the T/V detector van was in their area so not having a T/V licence decided to unplug it and hide it behind their sofa the night before. Her husband was at work during the day......
Then later in the day a knock on the door...........Roy’s mother opens the door and its the T/V man checking to see if they had a T/V....now Roy is a bit overpowering and loud, he wants to know who this guy is and touching him too…. he says" what's the man want with us June" she all the time trying to discourage Roy, and asked him to leave the room and go to his bedroom but it fell on deaf ears....
He was now wanting to know who this man was and again said "come on June who is he!! does dada know him? And, and what does he want?" "oh Roy" she shouts getting flustered "its only the man to see if we have got a Television that’s all" (just hoping he never remembered her and a husband putting it behind the sofa the night before) and he responds "well tell him June!! Its behind the sofa covered over with bed sheets you and dada put it there last night are you loosing your memory" she went bright red and was caught red handed, so to speak, and paid a fine in excess of £200 I think this was 10 yrs ago at least...........
But when told about it by Junes sister I found it really funny I know the family concerned and June Sadly passed away about three years ago now....
but nothing better than reality! for the best comical/whimsical stories.........
A friend of a friend has a downs syndrome child? a young man (Roy) then about 25 yrs old when this happened, and he can communicate with people but is quite loud, unfortunately as had to be taught in a special school most of his life etc, always called his mum by her Christian name June.
They were forewarned that the T/V detector van was in their area so not having a T/V licence decided to unplug it and hide it behind their sofa the night before. Her husband was at work during the day......
Then later in the day a knock on the door...........Roy’s mother opens the door and its the T/V man checking to see if they had a T/V....now Roy is a bit overpowering and loud, he wants to know who this guy is and touching him too…. he says" what's the man want with us June" she all the time trying to discourage Roy, and asked him to leave the room and go to his bedroom but it fell on deaf ears....
He was now wanting to know who this man was and again said "come on June who is he!! does dada know him? And, and what does he want?" "oh Roy" she shouts getting flustered "its only the man to see if we have got a Television that’s all" (just hoping he never remembered her and a husband putting it behind the sofa the night before) and he responds "well tell him June!! Its behind the sofa covered over with bed sheets you and dada put it there last night are you loosing your memory" she went bright red and was caught red handed, so to speak, and paid a fine in excess of £200 I think this was 10 yrs ago at least...........
But when told about it by Junes sister I found it really funny I know the family concerned and June Sadly passed away about three years ago now....
but nothing better than reality! for the best comical/whimsical stories.........
simmo
Senior Jockey
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That'll be searching for those secret signals that your TV puts out. You can turn them off you know.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
I don’t know if your really aware Simmo that/what these people do......
Your/my name are totally irrelevent to them but your address is certainly not and if there's an history of someone paying a licence from the said address they want to know why its not being paid now!! (and lets be perfectly candid about it there are a lot of people who don't/wont pay if they can get away with it)
Its like the poll tax (council tax) they reckon there’s about half a million people gone missing in the south Glamorgan postal area alone...single parent families who fail to register that they have adults living at home so therefore only need to pay 75% of the costs.... they fail to fill in census forms to... So these can no longer vote and obviously because their gone missing the tax becomes higher for those that have got to pay it.....
So if you take this figure and multiply ex number of times representing different areas throughout Britain this then gives wrong figures to/of the number of people actually living in the U/K and upsets the democratic process too as these people can't vote .... so it all has got a relevance and the government collates these figures drawn from different taxes (if you term the t/v licence as a tax? which I certainly do its on a par with vat, you pay it, if you want it or any commodity, bar basic food which of course is excluded)
But going back to the t/v licence yes I suppose on its own you could switch off your t/v but that’s only part of the equation as I have tried to explain here, history counts for a lot? With regards payments over the years.. and these detector vans don’t just work 9 until 5 you know as you are aware people do go out to work and only view television in the evening, and as stated not all want to pay it, especially for some of the muck they now send out ….
I have stated on here many times, I have a hobby radio communications and I know for a fact that there is an office in Cardiff that monitors all frequencies to see if pirate radio is on air and many other things too, I have the same communications receiver has they use (so big brother is here to stay mate regardless of what you think?) so detector vans are just a cog in the wheel so to speak..
Your/my name are totally irrelevent to them but your address is certainly not and if there's an history of someone paying a licence from the said address they want to know why its not being paid now!! (and lets be perfectly candid about it there are a lot of people who don't/wont pay if they can get away with it)
Its like the poll tax (council tax) they reckon there’s about half a million people gone missing in the south Glamorgan postal area alone...single parent families who fail to register that they have adults living at home so therefore only need to pay 75% of the costs.... they fail to fill in census forms to... So these can no longer vote and obviously because their gone missing the tax becomes higher for those that have got to pay it.....
So if you take this figure and multiply ex number of times representing different areas throughout Britain this then gives wrong figures to/of the number of people actually living in the U/K and upsets the democratic process too as these people can't vote .... so it all has got a relevance and the government collates these figures drawn from different taxes (if you term the t/v licence as a tax? which I certainly do its on a par with vat, you pay it, if you want it or any commodity, bar basic food which of course is excluded)
But going back to the t/v licence yes I suppose on its own you could switch off your t/v but that’s only part of the equation as I have tried to explain here, history counts for a lot? With regards payments over the years.. and these detector vans don’t just work 9 until 5 you know as you are aware people do go out to work and only view television in the evening, and as stated not all want to pay it, especially for some of the muck they now send out ….
I have stated on here many times, I have a hobby radio communications and I know for a fact that there is an office in Cardiff that monitors all frequencies to see if pirate radio is on air and many other things too, I have the same communications receiver has they use (so big brother is here to stay mate regardless of what you think?) so detector vans are just a cog in the wheel so to speak..
simmo
Senior Jockey
The point I was getting at Merlin, is that your television does not emit any signals, barring normal egress from aerial/electrical connections, which could be picked up by any "detector" van. I believe that the one's with aerials on top are for show.
You are quite right about pirate radio/cb comms, which do emit a detectable signal. You are also quite right about them using address information to track down those miscreants who are not paying their bills.
You are quite right about pirate radio/cb comms, which do emit a detectable signal. You are also quite right about them using address information to track down those miscreants who are not paying their bills.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
oh yes Simmo I am very aware of that also....
I was just relating a story which I found as being very funny and the punch line being.... and he responds "well tell him June!! Its behind the sofa covered over with bed sheets you and dada put it there last night are you loosing your memory" she went bright red and was caught red handed ..............
simmo
Senior Jockey
and very amusing it was too.
P
Phil Waters
Guest
The law, as it stands, actually does not state that if you simply have a TV you need a licence.
It is if you install and use a TV for the purposes of receiving broadcasts (programmes), then you are liable.
If you have a TV and only use it for watching videos, dvds or playing games, you do not need a licence.
I would still argue that to receive broadcasts you would need an aerial. And although they mention digital satellite viewers need a licence, it isn't very clear as to whether or not they assume you have an aerial.
On that note, I wasn't able to watch the Scottish Cup highlights last night again.
It is if you install and use a TV for the purposes of receiving broadcasts (programmes), then you are liable.
If you have a TV and only use it for watching videos, dvds or playing games, you do not need a licence.
I would still argue that to receive broadcasts you would need an aerial. And although they mention digital satellite viewers need a licence, it isn't very clear as to whether or not they assume you have an aerial.
On that note, I wasn't able to watch the Scottish Cup highlights last night again.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
For starters, just try to prove to the licencing authority that you don't receive broadcasts through the TV set - you'll struggle! Apart from anything else, I'm sure peopel have been trying to pull that one for years now to wriggle out of having to pay for their licence. I think you'll find that you won't get away with it. In fact, I don't think you can get away with the old I only watch videos/dvds on my TV. As Brian said before, if you have a TV you need a licence or you are liable to prosecution, end of story!
How is that OU Law degree going anyway?!
How is that OU Law degree going anyway?!
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Phil Waters
Guest
Brian is 100% completely wrong.
So it is far from end of story.
This isn't about anyone trying to wriggle out of paying for a licence. Haven't you been reading? This is about me not being to receive BBC1 Scotland programmes, yet my next door neighbour can. My argument is that if I do not have an aerial, am I still liable?
And as for "the old one I only watch videos/dvds on my tv", it is an absolute fact of law that you do not need a licence to watch videos/dvds or play games on your television.
The degree is coming along just fine.
So it is far from end of story.
This isn't about anyone trying to wriggle out of paying for a licence. Haven't you been reading? This is about me not being to receive BBC1 Scotland programmes, yet my next door neighbour can. My argument is that if I do not have an aerial, am I still liable?
And as for "the old one I only watch videos/dvds on my tv", it is an absolute fact of law that you do not need a licence to watch videos/dvds or play games on your television.
The degree is coming along just fine.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
PHIL yes mate what about these millions who have cable t/v its piped does not come via an aerial I can watch Scotish t/v as NTL gives you that option to view these channels.............or Northern Ireland or London as well as Welsh in English that is....... 
P
Phil Waters
Guest
Forget about Sky, NTL etc for a moment.
Would you be unhappy if you could not watch a programme that your next door neighbour could watch, just because you did not have the basic required apparatus to do so?
It is a yes or no question.
Would you be unhappy if you could not watch a programme that your next door neighbour could watch, just because you did not have the basic required apparatus to do so?
It is a yes or no question.
A
Ardross
Guest
Section 363 Communications Act 2003 governs the position -
Here are the explanatory notes - if you have a television and install or use it to receive TV programmes you are liable to prosecution.
Section 363: Licence required for use of TV receiver
762. This section prohibits the installation or use of a television receiver without a TV licence issued by the BBC, and makes it an offence, punishable by a fine, for any person to:
install or use a television receiver without a TV licence; or
have a television receiver in his possession or under his control, intending to install or use it without a TV licence, or knowing (or having reasonable grounds for believing) that another person intends to install or use it without a TV licence.
763. Subsection (5) exempts from the requirement to hold a TV licence any person who, in the course of business as a dealer, delivers, installs on delivery, demonstrates, tests or repairs television receivers. Subsection (6) gives the Secretary of State the power to make regulations creating further categories of exemptions from the requirement to hold a TV licence for prescribed equipment, persons, circumstances or purposes.
764. Paragraph 55 of Schedule 18 provides that any television licence granted under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 before the coming into effect of this section shall have effect after its coming into force as a licence for the purposes of this section.
Section 364: TV licences
765. This section provides for the issuing by the BBC of TV licences. The BBC may include in TV licences such conditions and restrictions as they think fit. They must attach such conditions and restrictions as the Secretary of State directs, and may not attach any conditions expressly prohibited by a direction issued by the Secretary of State. They are also precluded from including any provision conferring a power of entry to any premises.
766. Subsection (2) gives a non-exhaustive list of the type of conditions that might be included in a TV licence, including provisions relating to the type of television receiver covered by the licence, the persons authorised to install or use a television receiver under the licence, and the purpose for which the receiver may be installed or used.
767. Subsection (5) gives the BBC the power to revoke or modify a TV licence either by notice to the licensee or by a general notice published in a manner as specified in the licence. The BBC must modify the conditions or restrictions in a TV licence if directed by the Secretary of State to do so. Otherwise the licence continues for the period specified in the licence.
Section 365: TV licence fees
768. This section allows the Secretary of State - subject to obtaining the consent of the Treasury - to make regulations setting the fees payable by licensees to the BBC (i) on the issue or renewal of a TV licence; and (ii) in such other circumstances as the Secretary of State provides for in the regulations. Regulations may also allow for concessions, and provide for payment of the licence fee by instalments.
Section 366: Powers to enforce TV licensing
769. This section sets out procedures for the issue and use of search warrants for the purpose of investigating offences under section 363. Subsections (1) and (2) provide that a justice of the peace in England or Wales, a sheriff in Scotland, or a lay magistrate in Northern Ireland, may grant a search warrant to one or more persons authorised by the BBC or OFCOM where he is satisfied by information provided under oath that there are reasonable grounds for suspecting (i) that an offence under section 363 has been or is being committed; (ii) that evidence related to such an offence is likely to be on premises or in any vehicle specified in the warrant; and (iii) that one or more of the conditions set out in subsection (3) are satisfied. Those conditions are: that it is impracticable to communicate with any person who may grant entry to the relevant premises or vehicle; that there is no one with whom it is practicable to communicate who is entitled to grant access to the evidence; that entry will not be granted unless a warrant is produced; or that the purpose of the search may be frustrated or seriously prejudiced unless carried out immediately on arrival at the relevant premises or vehicle.
*vehicle is defined in subsection (10) as including any vessel, aircraft or hovercraft.
770. A warrant granted under this section will be valid for one month after the day of grant. It may grant powers to enter and search specified premises or vehicles and to examine and test any television receiver found there. A warrant issued to a person authorised by OFCOM may only be used to investigate breaches of TV licence conditions relating to radio interference. Persons acting under a warrant may use reasonable force in the exercise of these powers.
771. Subsection (7) imposes a duty on any person who is on the premises specified in the warrant, or who is in, in charge of, or present at the vehicle specified in the warrant, to provide any assistance necessary to enable any person acting under the warrant to examine or test any television receiver found there.
772. Subsection (8) makes it an offence intentionally to obstruct the exercise of any powers granted under a warrant under this section or to fail (without reasonable excuse) to provide any assistance required under subsection (7). A person guilty of such an offence is liable to a fine.
Section 367: Interpretation of provisions about dealer notification
773. This section replaces the definitions of "television dealer", "television programme" and "television set" in section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967, enabling the Secretary of State, by regulations, to define a television dealer and a television set for the purposes of the dealer notification requirements of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967. The apparatus specified in regulations defining television sets may include software used in association with it.
Section 368: Meaning of "television receiver" and "use"
774. This section defines a television receiver as apparatus of a description defined by the Secretary of State, by order, as a television receiver. The apparatus specified in an order may include software used in association with it.
Here are the explanatory notes - if you have a television and install or use it to receive TV programmes you are liable to prosecution.
Section 363: Licence required for use of TV receiver
762. This section prohibits the installation or use of a television receiver without a TV licence issued by the BBC, and makes it an offence, punishable by a fine, for any person to:
install or use a television receiver without a TV licence; or
have a television receiver in his possession or under his control, intending to install or use it without a TV licence, or knowing (or having reasonable grounds for believing) that another person intends to install or use it without a TV licence.
763. Subsection (5) exempts from the requirement to hold a TV licence any person who, in the course of business as a dealer, delivers, installs on delivery, demonstrates, tests or repairs television receivers. Subsection (6) gives the Secretary of State the power to make regulations creating further categories of exemptions from the requirement to hold a TV licence for prescribed equipment, persons, circumstances or purposes.
764. Paragraph 55 of Schedule 18 provides that any television licence granted under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 before the coming into effect of this section shall have effect after its coming into force as a licence for the purposes of this section.
Section 364: TV licences
765. This section provides for the issuing by the BBC of TV licences. The BBC may include in TV licences such conditions and restrictions as they think fit. They must attach such conditions and restrictions as the Secretary of State directs, and may not attach any conditions expressly prohibited by a direction issued by the Secretary of State. They are also precluded from including any provision conferring a power of entry to any premises.
766. Subsection (2) gives a non-exhaustive list of the type of conditions that might be included in a TV licence, including provisions relating to the type of television receiver covered by the licence, the persons authorised to install or use a television receiver under the licence, and the purpose for which the receiver may be installed or used.
767. Subsection (5) gives the BBC the power to revoke or modify a TV licence either by notice to the licensee or by a general notice published in a manner as specified in the licence. The BBC must modify the conditions or restrictions in a TV licence if directed by the Secretary of State to do so. Otherwise the licence continues for the period specified in the licence.
Section 365: TV licence fees
768. This section allows the Secretary of State - subject to obtaining the consent of the Treasury - to make regulations setting the fees payable by licensees to the BBC (i) on the issue or renewal of a TV licence; and (ii) in such other circumstances as the Secretary of State provides for in the regulations. Regulations may also allow for concessions, and provide for payment of the licence fee by instalments.
Section 366: Powers to enforce TV licensing
769. This section sets out procedures for the issue and use of search warrants for the purpose of investigating offences under section 363. Subsections (1) and (2) provide that a justice of the peace in England or Wales, a sheriff in Scotland, or a lay magistrate in Northern Ireland, may grant a search warrant to one or more persons authorised by the BBC or OFCOM where he is satisfied by information provided under oath that there are reasonable grounds for suspecting (i) that an offence under section 363 has been or is being committed; (ii) that evidence related to such an offence is likely to be on premises or in any vehicle specified in the warrant; and (iii) that one or more of the conditions set out in subsection (3) are satisfied. Those conditions are: that it is impracticable to communicate with any person who may grant entry to the relevant premises or vehicle; that there is no one with whom it is practicable to communicate who is entitled to grant access to the evidence; that entry will not be granted unless a warrant is produced; or that the purpose of the search may be frustrated or seriously prejudiced unless carried out immediately on arrival at the relevant premises or vehicle.
*vehicle is defined in subsection (10) as including any vessel, aircraft or hovercraft.
770. A warrant granted under this section will be valid for one month after the day of grant. It may grant powers to enter and search specified premises or vehicles and to examine and test any television receiver found there. A warrant issued to a person authorised by OFCOM may only be used to investigate breaches of TV licence conditions relating to radio interference. Persons acting under a warrant may use reasonable force in the exercise of these powers.
771. Subsection (7) imposes a duty on any person who is on the premises specified in the warrant, or who is in, in charge of, or present at the vehicle specified in the warrant, to provide any assistance necessary to enable any person acting under the warrant to examine or test any television receiver found there.
772. Subsection (8) makes it an offence intentionally to obstruct the exercise of any powers granted under a warrant under this section or to fail (without reasonable excuse) to provide any assistance required under subsection (7). A person guilty of such an offence is liable to a fine.
Section 367: Interpretation of provisions about dealer notification
773. This section replaces the definitions of "television dealer", "television programme" and "television set" in section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967, enabling the Secretary of State, by regulations, to define a television dealer and a television set for the purposes of the dealer notification requirements of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967. The apparatus specified in regulations defining television sets may include software used in association with it.
Section 368: Meaning of "television receiver" and "use"
774. This section defines a television receiver as apparatus of a description defined by the Secretary of State, by order, as a television receiver. The apparatus specified in an order may include software used in association with it.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Cant get anything better than that!!!! its fully comprehensive and covers every possible scenario so Phil you'll have to get NTL or MOVE 
P
Phil Waters
Guest
So I'm right.
A
Ardross
Guest
P
Phil Waters
Guest
Merlin, you didn't even read what Ardross posted did you? And, if you did, most of it is explanatory notes, to understand its relevance you have to actually read the Communications Act 2003 in order to fully understand it.
The bottom line is, if you are not using a TV to receive broadcasts, you do not need a licence. As so far as that goes, I am right.
However, do I qualify as being someone who receives broadcasts if I do not receive what I am entitled to?
The bottom line is, if you are not using a TV to receive broadcasts, you do not need a licence. As so far as that goes, I am right.
However, do I qualify as being someone who receives broadcasts if I do not receive what I am entitled to?
A
Ardross
Guest
YES