National Hunt Racing...

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Going the route of flat racing...another domination of a big Saturday card by Paul Nicholls. If it was a flat meeting and Ballydoyle or Godolphin were winning virtually everything we would hear people complain about it. He could have 4-5 winners today on a card as big as todays one at Newbury.
 
His horses just seem to travel better than anything else at the minute. Very impressive.
 
It's up to other trainers to work out what he's doing that they aren't Gal, on the flat it appears fairly obvious - Coolmore and Godolphin spend a lot more money on the horses.

Over jumps you have to ask why didn't one of Hobbs owners buy Big Bucks, Master Minded etc?

Nicholls mentions today in his column in the RP that he's got two new horses over from France - the only other trainer I see with these regularly is Pipe and they often come from claiming hurdles.
 
Is it not better for the sport to have someone for everyone else to aim for. For other trainers to compete it becomes imperitative they will have to raise their game. Look at what Nadal and Federer have done for Tennis and Taylor & Barneveld in Darts.
 
Good example Granger - taking the darts you only need to compare the two Championships, the BDO and the PDC - one is professional and has the most successful player in the history of the game in Taylor, whilst the other regularly churns out average World Champions. The PDC has a number of up and coming young players - Wade and Lewis being the most notable whilst the BDO is full of middle of the road journeymen, Shepherd being the only light.
 
............but when the first two favourites for the Gold Cup and now perhaps the Champion Chase is that good for the game?

It is unlikely that these horses will be asked to take each other on other than at the very highest level.

And we end up with rather uncompetitive races like yesterday's Aon.
 
Originally posted by Irish Stamp@Feb 9 2008, 02:33 PM
.... whilst the BDO is full of middle of the road journeymen, Shepherd being the only light.
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Is that except for the 24 year old 2008 World Champ??

Also, Sheperd plays in the PDC....
 
Sorry Perpetual - yes apart from the 24yo World Champion. Shepherd does indeed play in the PDC so that's another youngster they'll have and given the money in the PDC he'd be mad not to move over too.
 
I fail to see what the problem is

Weve had this before with M Pipe, the sport survived

All bar denman were at backable prices. Why would anyone complain? PN is probably the most open NH trainer I can recall and I would say he is certainly the finest (i just missed Dickinson at his peak). He treats the public with respect and keeps banging in the winners

Whats the problem? shrug::
 
I am not stating there is a problem. Just its interesting to see the difference in attitude when a big player on the flat dominates compared to a big player on the NH scene.
 
I think that soem of the hostility some might have towards Ballydoyle and Godolphin reveolve around issues other than dominance. neither are that dominant anyway

in Ballydoyles case it would be the feeling that its a bit too much of a slick PR spin machine where the punters (or more accurately the breeders) are often fed what they would want us to believe rather than what is the truth. In Godolphins case it is the constant buying up of decent animals and making little of them

I think it would be putting it very mildly to say that punters and general racegoers have a helluva lot of time for Nichols
 
The difference is that Nicholls worked his way up from a very small beginning. He shrewdly associated himself with Paul Barber and John Keighley.

Apart from Artifice, Barber had not had huge success with his horses.

Nicholls spent years in the shadows of David Nicholson and Martin Pipe, but stuck with his plan of buying young horses to be trained to go chasing.

Over the years, as his talents became increasingly obvious, he has acquired more and more top owners, from Pipe et al, such as Graham Roach and Clive Smith. Today he now even has Pipe's top patron, David Johnson sending him horses, as well as Jim "Best Mate" Lewis.

Paul Barber was already a wealthy man, but he can hardly be accused of having put into Manor Farm Stables anything like the sort of investment made by the likes of J P McManus for instance.

The key is he spotted Nicholls' talents early, and the rest as they say is history.

Godolphin and Ballydoyle probably cause consternation in some because of the fact that they were built by multi-billionaires able to throw fortune upon fortune at the game and buy success.

Ballydoyle was built by a genius, M V O'Brien, who's dominance in National Hunt before he switched codes is there for all to see, and without the need for billions.

I don't think the comparison with Ballydoyle and Godolphin was very good. I think it is probably worth looking at the McManus/O'Neill saga to see how throwing money at the game is not the key to success. Raw talent is, and Nicholls has this in droves.
 
Nicely put useful

Nichols will never get lablled with "the genius" tag that some others laughably are, because he is so very straightforward and clear. Theres no mystique or bullsht

but the real talents in life make the difficult seem easy
 
The difference is two are owners and one is a trainer, therefore I don't think we are comparing like for like.
 
I bear no grudge to Nicholls at all. He always has his horses turned out immaculate and more importantly runs them regularly. There is no cotton wool treatment and if more trainers had this attitude, racing would be a more exciting place.
 
Terry Warner seems to be the latest to have horses with him. Does he target these guys or is it just that they want to get on board the bandwagon?
 
Originally posted by useful@Feb 11 2008, 12:50 PM
The difference is that Nicholls worked his way up from a very small beginning. He shrewdly associated himself with Paul Barber and John Keighley.
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So did Aidan O'Brien. Long before he was getting the blue-bloods, he was getting remarkable improvement out of some very average National Hunt horses. To suggest that he has "always had it easy off" is just not true..

As for the owners, it's not as if the likes of Barber, Findlay et al. are your average joe's either..
 
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