Panorama 830 monday

O

Outsider

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Its about the amount of racehorses being sent for slaughter,mainly from Ireland.4000 since the start of 2019.
I often wonder what has happened to racehorses I've followed that stop racing or just disappear.
Grey Destiny is a horse I always thought tried his heart out and now hes not running,I often wonder if hes enjoying retirement or has he been sent to the slaughterhouse.
 
Outsider said:
I often wonder what has happened to racehorses I've followed that stop racing or just disappear.
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Same. We used to run a compo on here where'd pick a Ballydoyle 2yo to follow at the start of the season. I remember one year picking one and it ran down the field in a maiden and never ran again. Like, what would have happened to that horse?
 
I cannot comment about how things are done in Ireland but where are the responses by the BHA? This has been circulating for over a week that it’s being broadcast yet zero. There should be someone who has an immediate response backed up by facts and figures.

There is is an article on the Daily Mail as expected and the comments on there are having a field day in discussing the barbaric sport. But things like this are just not going to go away. We all know what a pathetic excuse for journalism Panorama has become but you cannot get away from the fact that it is being broadcast on BBC1 at prime time. And the ignorant and gullible will believe this to be true.
 
Apart from the main thread being about the slaughtering of thousands of ex-racehorses I believe they’ve had a hidden camera in an abattoir which shows all sorts of horrors.
 
Outsider said:
Its about the amount of racehorses being sent for slaughter,mainly from Ireland.4000 since the start of 2019.
I often wonder what has happened to racehorses I've followed that stop racing or just disappear.
Grey Destiny is a horse I always thought tried his heart out and now hes not running,I often wonder if hes enjoying retirement or has he been sent to the slaughterhouse.
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Trained by Antony Brittain? I can ask someone who knows him for you.
 
jinnyj said:
We all know what a pathetic excuse for journalism Panorama has become but you cannot get away from the fact that it is being broadcast on BBC1 at prime time.
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In July in 25c temperatures. Lot of people not watching tv in this heat.
 
jinnyj said:
I cannot comment about how things are done in Ireland but where are the responses by the BHA? This has been circulating for over a week that it’s being broadcast yet zero. There should be someone who has an immediate response backed up by facts and figures.

.
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Quite.

I didn't see the programme but have read the piece via FB on the BBC website with stills from the camera in the abbatoir which don't show anything to be honest but they are only stills. I personally would not be able to watch anything more but someone in the piece says the same things happens to cows/pigs/sheep etc but misses the point perhaps that those animals haven't been 'used' as such by their owners, whether ultimately that makes a difference or not, I'm not really sure.
It does break my heart when seeing particularly older horses going through sales rings when either past their best and/or been replaced by younger ones as think that is really callous by some owners that they sell them on to who knows who rather than try and rehome them, but a lot of owners don't see the horses as ultimately having a responsibility to when no longer needed.
I go and see my muppet once a week when he was in training, and now in rehab hopefully going back shortly; usually the poor assistant trainer gets stuck with me and he told me very early on that most owners don't come and see their horses in the yard more than once a year/season. ( I take treats as some kind of compensation for putting up with me ) I bred mine and was there 2 seconds after he hit the ground, and appreciate I have a very strong emotional attachment to him but I just don't understand not going to see them at all?
Years ago when I worked at a stud and was talking to a mare owner, who had 5/6 mares about nominations, and asked about 2 mares he had but hadn't included in the conversation, he told me there were going to the 'slaughter house' as were 18 and 19 and weren't having any more foals. I was horrified and said couldn't you just either let them be in a field or try to rehome them as companions perhaps? Very bluntly told me they weren't pets and had served their purpose.
Forgive a silly question but why do so many come over from Ireland? Do they not have the means over there? Just wondering why they are transport them over.
 
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Seems the conclusion should be to have better abattoirs. Pretty disgraceful targeting of Elliott.
 
I deliberately didn’t watch but I gather one of the horses was Vyta du Roc? Sad end for a lovely horse.
 
My summary -fairly radical group gets a secret camera in an abbatoir and the BBC make a documentary about it.The programme names two Irish trainers including Gordon Elliott who is notorious to Daily Mail readers.Michael O' Leary is also mentioned.No English based trainers or owners are mentioned.There seems to be a serious lack of statistics,facts and figures.I thought it was flimsy enough.
Personally I think horse meat should be banned from the food chain.
 
Bit of a stretch to make a programme about the malpractices of the Swindon abbatoir in order to pillory racing, but that’s bias for you.
 
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Lucinda Russell on Facebook:

[FONT=&quot]Tonight Panorama are going to report on a British abattoir which kills horses, allegedly many ex racehorses, including three originally trained by Gordon Elliot
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[FONT=&quot]Let's get things straight; this program concentrates on an abattoir with despicable practices where the horses are killed, sometimes in groups, with no apparent care for their welfare. This is appalling and should not happen.
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[FONT=&quot]The act of putting a horse to sleep, carried out correctly and humanely is not cruel. It happens with racehorses, pleasure horses, sports horses and indeed all pets, and I am sure that everyone reading this will have known the emotional devastation and loss felt after death, but it is our responsibility to make sure that the animal's final moments are stress free.
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[FONT=&quot]The reasons for ending a horses life are varied but as a trainer and owner we must all take a responsibility that it is carried out with the horses welfare as paramount. There is no place for cruelty.
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[FONT=&quot]At the end of a horses racing career we have a moral responsibility to be sure that the horse is best looked after til the end of their days.
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[FONT=&quot]In twenty six years training racehorses we have never put down a horse at the end of their career. Indeed social media today will carry many photographs and stories of ex racehorses and the respect, love and care bestowed on them.
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[FONT=&quot]Here we either permanent loan or sell our horses and it is the second scenario that carries most risk to the horse. While we filter prospective owners and place the horses in their best home we then lose control if sold on again and this is when our horses are most at risk.
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[FONT=&quot]At Lucinda Russell Racing we try to keep in touch with all owners and subsequent owners of our horses and will always take them back if we hear of problems.
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[FONT=&quot]At the end of the day it is about money. We are in the fortunate position that we can afford to take back any of our ex racehorses that, for whatever reason, are no longer safe in their home, and this is a responsibility that we feel strongly about.
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[FONT=&quot]There should be a safety net for all ex racehorses, perhaps the BHA and ROR can confirm and publicise their support for looking after the warriors who have played their part in our sport and all trainers and owners should reaffirm their responsibility for their horses.
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[FONT=&quot]#LRRacing
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I’m not going to watch the programme as I don’t want images in my head that will never go away like a PETA video that someone once sent me which I have never got over. However I have been pondering over it as there’s quite a lengthy discussion about it on a forum I frequent. It crossed my mind that the problem with horses and ponies is that they have such a long lifespan and a lot of that is in retirement. If they lived eg 15-20 years it would be easier for someone to commit to looking after them for that amount of time. But over 30 years our lives can and do change, our health and finances can take a turn for the worst. When my marriage ended I did three jobs to support me and my pony. I don’t know what the answer is. But I get so brassed off with non racing people saying we don’t care about horses especially when they themselves know little about horses. Apologies for thinking out loud by the way.
 
Like a few on here i deliberately didn't watch it

Seems to me the root cause of this is

Too much racing
Too much bad racing
Too many horses in training
Too many bad horses in training
Owners who bail out when they realise it's costing them a fortune and getting nothing back in return
Not enough homes for retired horses because there's too many horses and nowhere for them to go
 
It seems to me that this issue, like others in racing (yards not able to attract/retain staff due to poor wages), it comes back to it being too cheap to have a horse in training.

Like any business trainers are always going to compete on price. But I do sometimes wonder if training fees were a bit higher as standard, some of these problems would be less acute

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If they were filming at the abattoir for 4 months and saw unethical practices being used why didn’t they blow the whistle sooner? Or were they waiting until they could find a high profile horse to sensationalise the programme?
 
moe said:
If they were filming at the abattoir for 4 months and saw unethical practices being used why didn’t they blow the whistle sooner? Or were they waiting until they could find a high profile horse to sensationalise the programme?
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That's a good point.how many horses suffered unnecessary traumas in those 4 months.that question should be put to the BBC
 
It's about time that the industry stopped being frightened of these dramatic but largely inconsequential pieces and the likes of animal aid. It was horribly produced. It wasn't remotely hard hitting no matter how much dramatic music they add. The same graphics repeated throughout. Throw in industry bad boys Elliott and O'Leary for extra effect. Did more damage to the causes of animal aid with the missed open goal. Ripping out all talent from BBC has its consequences.

Have abattoirs set up regionally by the industry, for humane treatment with standards that are beyond reproach. Leave animal aidand whoever else wants to make their complaints.

This was an attempt to capitalise on Elliots situation. Ultimately, they were hoping for worse than the abattoirs standards being poor.
 
littlelad said:
It seems to me that this issue, like others in racing (yards not able to attract/retain staff due to poor wages), it comes back to it being too cheap to have a horse in training.

Like any business trainers are always going to compete on price. But I do sometimes wonder if training fees were a bit higher as standard, some of these problems would be less acute

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What do you consider higher? My trainer charges £52 a day plus for him doing 14 furlong canters most days? ( and he's not the most expensive by some way ) I struggle to keep him there but I brought him into the world and I have a care of duty to give him a chance, aside from my love for him. Would paying more make me look after him more when he's finished? No? would it stop me putting him in training and REALLY turning into the sport of just the very rich ( for I am not even a bit rich )? Yes it would. Some of these very rich people don't look after the horses that run for them now when they are passed it/injured , how do you think paying more for them on a daily basis would change the thought process of responsibility after they can no longer run? Cite the Munir horse featured in the programme to name one. They're billionaires between them but he still ended up being put down in an abbatoir.
If my muppet doesn't make it as a race horse it wouldn't change my love for him. I will look after him' til the day he dies whenever that may be. If I die first he is in my will to be taken care of. I go without to have him and I will continue to as long as he needs my money to exist and he has a good life. And I have no money. Seriously no money but I would never put him down because of the cost of him.
My vet is Simon Knapp, who I adore but even if I didn't, he has been campaigning for years to have horses fatally injured on racehorses put down by injection rather than being shot. He cannot get any of the 'authorities' to agree to it. The reason he is told that it would take too long. He feels it is more humane to all concerned, but the racecourses/authorities think not. Those in charge need to look to themselves as well as others about welfare across the board, racing or not racing.
 
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Need more like Fergal O'Brien. Plenty still have their heads stuck up their arses.
 
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GG, Your last point re shooting versus injection is interesting. My father was a vet at the Cheltenham Festival for many years and would always have chosen to use a humane killer bolt style gun over an injection any day purely because it was often so much harder to put a needle into the vein of a horse when it wasn’t standing still (and horses are often needle aware). I think it is our perception that shooting a horse is cruel as opposed to injecting chemicals into its body to kill it is the underlying factor here. The bolt gun is instantaneous and the horse has no idea what’s happening.
 
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The whole thing smacked of a setup to promote Animal Aids agenda, imo. Why was their rep not questioned in more depth about his outlandish and sinister assertions, how did they contrive to place a camera in the 'killing room' and it remain undetected for 4 months, and why could the slaughter house not identify, and discipline, the guy who (apparently) shot a horse from across the room with some kind of rifle, and how did he manage to get it into the building?
All elementary questions which no one thought to raise, and resulted in a pile of bullcrap being foisted as a serious issue.
Shame on the BBC, and all it used to represent.
 
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