Panorama Tonight

[Diamond Geezer]

New figures seen by BBC Panorama show there has been a rise in violent crime in betting shops since the introduction of the Gambling Act five years ago.

Police statistics obtained under Freedom of Information show violent crime in betting shops in Britain rose by 9% between 2008 and 2011.

Betting shop managers told the programme they believed one cause was high stake, fast-paced gaming terminals.

Presented by Sophie Raworth, Panorama went undercover to test those claims.

Panorama: Gambling Nation is on BBC One, Monday, 5 November at 20:30 GM

 

[Marble]

But the industry says they're good for growth and creating new jobs,... feck it if it comes due to borderline white collar crime, feck it if it fecks the local community, **** it if it creates a new niche of patient the NHS has to treat in the near future, ay!!!

What do the token tree hugging lefties/liberals make of all this I wonder, they seem markedly absent in these debates.

It's left to myself, Harriet Harman and a few other wise people to state the obvious now!

"We made it safer", -:Tessa Jowell on Newsnight a few months ago when questioned on why they (Labour) fell in love with corporate bookmakers, and saw the citizens which would be induced into this socio economic experiment as mere non-entitys.

Well, Tony Blair was good for the Irish peace process but not for standing up to bookies it seems. Hopefully the current 'big society' lot will see this all for what it is, damaging to society...

I feel the damage has already been done, it's just a case of how reversable the damage is.

No company or business should be able to guarantee its survival by essentially defrauding people. Bookies time and time again say how good it all is for their profits, and how essential it is to their growth, but as I've stated before, they have a lot more in common with banks, in terms of ethical practice than any of us have ever understood before.

I read quotes from them in the Racing Post, and think how identical these Bookie reps have become to machines themselves, defending other machines! I guess part of the job title involves having no balls whatsoever, (see Kate Miller), not to mention a conscious...

Thanks for flagging this up, DG.

 

[links781]

Looking forward to watching this later.I was away with work in London Last year and had backed Brampour in the Greatwood at a Ladbrokes in Haringay.Probably the most intimidated I have ever been when I went to collect.In fact I went back the morning after.Without stereotyping I was the only person from my ethnic demographic group in there and most of the customers were openly smoking joints feeding bundles of notes into the machines- probably the proceeds of I don't know what!

 

[Grey]

I am surprised at the suggestion of a link between rising violent crime and the machines, much though I hate them. I would have thought cash behind the counter was the main attraction.

Betting shops in Ireland are not allowed to have the machines but that doesn't stop plenty of the shops from being robbed too. Dublin City Council banned the machines even from amusement arcades and the like in the 1980s following a campaign led mainly by community organisations and the left. The councillors from the two conservative parties, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael were the last to agree to it. It has since emerged that donations from industry sources might have had something to do with their tenacious stand on behalf of gambling hall operators.

 

[gus]

What do the token tree hugging lefties/liberals make of all this I wonder, they seem markedly absent in these debates.

I must be missing something. What has this issue to do with "tree hugging lefties/liberals," token or otherwise?

 

[Marble]

Well, what do people from the hard left of the spectrum think?

I'm a leftie on certain issues, I'm sure you are too. If people on the right say its a question of personal responsiblity then I'd like to hear more prominent figures on the left say their view.

 

[doomster]

I think it would have been informative if they had reported that the bookies in question refuse to take bets on a regular basis.

Strange how they fail to recognize problem gamblers when it comes to exclusion, but can sniff a "value seeker" and mile off.

 

[Digger]

WTF does it have to do with Left or Right?? Its not a political issue. You are confusing politics with social responsilbilty. You could ban FOBTs tomorrow and these guys would go back to playing old school bandits. The problem is if a gambler has £300 in his pocket (which in a free society he can do what he wants) he will find a way of spunking it. Bookie shops are finished....another 20 years the wont exist. How many people on this site actually bet in a shop now...not many id say. Its a bygone age.

 

[gigilo]

Never really understood the campaign against these machines in comparison to any other sort of gambling,surely whoever plays them to the extent of losing fortunes have always had gambling problems previously.Can't say i agree with them anywhere,but surely these people would just be giving it back in other forms of gambling.Infact you could argue as machines pay out is something like 60+ % they're probably getting better value for money as backing on horses blindly and no guarantee of any return.
I wouldn't defend them them as i think they are a disgrace but i can't see why they are worse for gamblers in general,whats the difference.They ban these machines and the gamblers just lose it on other forms of betting maybe slower if playing in arcades.

 

[gigilo]

Looking forward to watching this later.I was away with work in London Last year and had backed Brampour in the Greatwood at a Ladbrokes in Haringay.Probably the most intimidated I have ever been when I went to collect.In fact I went back the morning after.Without stereotyping I was the only person from my ethnic demographic group in there and most of the customers were openly smoking joints feeding bundles of notes into the machines- probably the proceeds of I don't know what!

My experience has been the complete opposite of that,but that maybe becuase of the quiet town i live in.From the few times i've been in shops in the last several years,it seems to be takeaway owners that i recognize,i think they get bored in between betting in every race:lol:.And on the flipside the students spoilt by mummy and daddys money.

 

[Tanlic]

No objections to high end Casinos having them but theses machines have no place on the high street where they attract the local punks that you wouldn't want to share a can of coke with.....they're like a magnet for bampots


The minute you start playing them your brain starts releasing chemicals like endorphins, adrenaline and dopamine which trigger all their addictive responses and it's like punting after drinking a bottle of Chivas Regal.........your self control is about ziltch......Not everyone of course but way too many totally lose the plot when playing them.



I remember gaming shops in Greenock in Scotland opening, owner made a fortune local crime went through the roof police showed the courts how the majority were connected to youngsters using these machines..........court withdrew the licences and they were all closed. Exact details I really don't know but it's common knowledge these machines lead to crime more than any other sort of gambling.

So what do the UK do?..bring em all back again....geez! they're so smart. I'd have thought they'de have at least wondered why the Jamaican Government banned them back in the 70's oh! and wasn't it Bermuda who banned them just a few years ago.

Dozens of countries have had national or local problems with these machines and only a dumb ass would have allowed them back in.

 

[Marble]

WTF does it have to do with Left or Right?? Its not a political issue. You are confusing politics with social responsilbilty. You could ban FOBTs tomorrow and these guys would go back to playing old school bandits. The problem is if a gambler has £300 in his pocket (which in a free society he can do what he wants) he will find a way of spunking it. Bookie shops are finished....another 20 years the wont exist. How many people on this site actually bet in a shop now...not many id say. Its a bygone age.

I asked a question as politics and social responsiblity are not poles apart. Whether left or right politics is relevent is up to me decide!!! I'm not not saying its the cause of the issue, I'd just like the issue to be more on the road map in terms of modern day politics. Its government policy that needs to change, if you can't see that, then as suggested in your quote above you don't seem to think there is a problem at all?

It is 100 percent a political issue when corporate companies exploit customers to the detriment of both person and community. If politicians had realised this when introducing gambling acts that have allowed this to happen a few years ago, well we might not be having this conversation now...

 

[Digger]

So do you ban big money bandits also? Do you ban scratch cards? Cartoon racing? Show me a bookie how doesnt love a numpty putting £100 on a cartoon race. You cannot ban a machine just because some people have no self control. I dont like having them in shops but I cant remember the last time i had a bet in a shop anyway.

And again Marbs it has nothing to do with politics. Labour and Tories will just use it as a point scoring exercise.

 

[links781]

My experience has been the complete opposite of that,but that maybe becuase of the quiet town i live in.From the few times i've been in shops in the last several years,it seems to be takeaway owners that i recognize,i think they get bored in between betting in every race:lol:.And on the flipside the students spoilt by mummy and daddys money.

At home that description would be much the same.The local bookies I use which is an independent,you wouldn't find a friendlier place,the manager knows everyone by name and the most dangerous thing that could happen is being trodden on by a pack of Filipino nurses scampering toward the fobts.

The manager once told me that the machines make this particular shop 600 and something profit each per week.Forgive me for being naiive but aren't these things regulated to be random?not really sure how these things work.....my take on it would be if people weren't putting their money in these machines they would be down aspers or grosvenor casinos on the tables "gamblers is as gamblers does" forest gump

 

[clivex]

nd again Marbs it has nothing to do with politics. Labour and Tories will just use it as a point scoring exercise.

It is to some extent. The right is more for personal responsibility and therefore more likely to sanction these machines. The left think they know whats best for everyone best illustrated by the idiot Harman

Theres a case to be made here but having that patronising, overpromoted, inarticulate fuckwit presenting the case certainly doesnt help.