Paul Nicholls Domination

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After reading it in the Racing Post today I had to double check...

Last season Aidan O'Brien earned £3,484,026 in GB for the flat season when he was Champion British Trainer. Paul Nicholls has earned £2,936,947 which is absolutely remarkable when you think of the prize money difference between flat and jumps. He still has Aintree and Sandown to come.

If he wins the National, the first prize money is £399,140 (well that's what it was last year) so that would push him even closer. Just underlines the total domination he has had on the jumping scene this season from start to finish.
 
Does it not seem strange the way this has happened? Pipe was well in front for so many years and within 2 years everything has gone wrong & Nicolls can do nothing wrong. I rarely bet on jumps horses nowadays because you never know if they are aimed at the race they are in, or something in the future.
 
Nicholls does what he says on the box. Tiger Woods dominates his sport, no-one accuses him of cheating. Celebrate excellence particularly in building a TEAM that is far better than the rest..
 
Domination in sport isnt always welcome but given his excllent attitude towards the racing public, the marvelous way his horses are campaigned and turned out and the fact that you know taht every effort is always made to maximise results...i can live with it

Hes a genuinely great trainer
 
Originally posted by clivex@Mar 23 2008, 12:29 PM
Domination in sport isnt always welcome but given his excllent attitude towards the racing public, the marvelous way his horses are campaigned and turned out and the fact that you know taht every effort is always made to maximise results...i can live with it

Hes a genuinely great trainer
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I think in general your correct. This thread was not meant to question his dominance etc but rather point out the remarkable achievements he has had this season. Did Pipe in his hey day ever get so close to the prize money reached by the Flat Champion Trainer?

There are negative aspects though, for instance he does not seem keen on his stable stars clashing which is understandable but frustrating somewhat as a racing follower.
 
I can't say I mind his domination too much, he's getting his just deserts for a lot of talent and hard work.

If we didn't have a dominant trainer in the tradition of Tom Dreaper, Fred Winter and Martin Pipe, then we'd all be moaning about how ordinary today's NH trainers are and yearning for the good old days.

There's a cyclical aspect to all this as well - no doubt in ten years time somebody else will be firmly ensconced at the top of the tree.
 
Don't forget every big money owner is attracted to Nicholls like a fly around a cows' arse. Lucky Jim, Paul Green, Hales, Stewart,Barber, Findley and now D Johnson. Therefore every horse who is scouted by Bromley etc is ending up at Nicholls. Maybe one slips through the net but that is why he is dominating.
A fine trainer but still over rated in my opinion.
Henrietta won three Gold Cups and various King Georges with 2-3 superstars and a lot of people wouldn't put a rocking horse with her.
Nicholls is having these superstars delivered en mass.
He's a very lucky man
 
A great deal of work and effort, not to mention money, goes into sourcing the horses and securing them. These people {his agents} know what they are looking at, even if a French trainer hasn't got the best from a horse

I am starting to find his domination very worrying, however well deserved - it can't be good for the sport in the long run. Even 2nd-rung 'rich men' like John Webb are now moving their horses to Nicholls, so depriving yet another small trainer in Steve Gollings of half his string, even though he's done well for Webb.

It's very bad news imo when most trainers are going to have to tell their owners that except at the very bottom level, it's pointless to expect anything from their NH horse except a day out, watching the top few yards and esp Nicholls win all the decent prizes. If the trend carries on Nicholls will have to run his stars against each other - there'll be booger-all else to run against!
 
Originally posted by harry@Mar 23 2008, 12:42 PM
Don't forget every big money owner is attracted to Nicholls like a fly around a cows' arse. Lucky Jim, Paul Green, Hales, Stewart,Barber, Findley and now D Johnson. Therefore every horse who is scouted by Bromley etc is ending up at Nicholls. Maybe one slips through the net but that is why he is dominating.
A fine trainer but still over rated in my opinion.
Henrietta won three Gold Cups and various King Georges with 2-3 superstars and a lot of people wouldn't put a rocking horse with her.
Nicholls is having these superstars delivered en mass.
He's a very lucky man
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That mirrors my opinion almost exactly.

Nicholls is a very capable trainer and has an effective team assembled at Ditcheat. However, talk of "genius" is just ludicrous imo. He holds all the aces in terms of jumping talent at the moment - I am far from convinced that a few other trainers wouldn't do a similarly good job given the same ammunition.
 
Very good post Harry. That god for flat racing for some competition between stables....
 
He got to hold the aces because he was so good at his job.

Have people forgotten the dominance of Monica and, more so, Michael Dickinson? The strange thing was, the Dickinsons didn't seem to attract big owners, just your ordinary NH enthusiast, until Michael switched to Flat racing for Robert Sangster.

They dominated because they got horses fitter and stronger than their contemporaries.

Pipe got his horses just as fit and then added sports science and race tactics to get an edge.

Nicholls seems to have managed to combine what all of them did and then capped it all by sourcing quality stock. He then took on board Ruby Walsh, who seems so well suited to Nicholls's horses.

I think we're extremely lucky to have some really top class trainers under both codes but in NH alone Pipe, Nicholls, Henderson, Hobbs plus so many Irish.
 
Desert Orchid - it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation really.

I'm sure if any of the top 10 jumps trainers (in terms of training ability) had the likes of Barber and Bromley sending them the very best NH bloodstock then they would make an equally good job of training them to win big races. That isn't knocking PN - he is clearly a decent trainer. I just like saving the word "genius" for those who really are achieving the almost unthinkable - and Nicholls isn't coming close to that.
 
TDK - can i ask who do you hear calling him a genius?

Nicholls as about as open as you could expect from a top trainer, and is good for the game.
 
For keeping them all sound - compared to other trainers who have been given a lot of horses with ability - then he deserves to be referred to as a genius

I like Meade, but look at the two horses either side of Denman in the Sun Alliance. Should have gone on to make fine chasers but barely sighted since.
 
Originally posted by Garney@Mar 23 2008, 04:56 PM
TDK - can i ask who do you hear calling him a genius?

Nicholls as about as open as you could expect from a top trainer, and is good for the game.
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There was someone in the Racing Post recently comparing him to Rembrandt :brows:

Agree Nicholls is good for the game.
 
Rembrandt? lol

Was that willoughby?

Genius is a silly overused word in racing frankly...Even more so than in real life

For all that im happy that such an open trainer is doing so well...still very disappointed (although it could be down to connections) that KS and Denman seem set to avoid each other in the Betfair


For keeping them all sound - compared to other trainers who have been given a lot of horses with ability - then he deserves to be referred to as a genius
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Must admit...he certainly seems to have an oustanding record for that. Luck or judgement? Ive no idea myself, but certain stables always seem to have "problems"
 
Very good point about keeping them sound....has a knack for bringing them back again and again.

Meade is not in Nicholls's league in my opinion.
 
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