Pope Serious Again

At least he is now in peace, he was a great man. God rest his soul. It is truly amazing how one man can inspire so many people that they come out in their millions to pray for him, not only in St Peter's Square but all over the world.
 
A great man and a great pope.

His death was a blessed relief, he's been in such terrible health for the last few years.
 
As someone who's not particularly religious, but young enough to have never known another Pope, it's really quite sad and not a little strange to think that he'll never be seen again.
 
I'm not a catholic or even a christian but I hope he rests in peace , a great man and someone who spoke to everyone regardless of faith . I remember when I was 10 yrs old him supporting Poland's independandance from Communism and thinking even then how revolutionary his stance was . This pope was never just a religious figure . He did an awful lot of good for the whole world in his life and broke tradition with most previous pontiffs in the reach of his message . He travelled more than any previous pope and wasn't constrained by the vatican . I admired him as a person and I think alot of people who arn't of the religion would still feel the same .
 
krizon said: "He seemed to be the most likeable, warm, and humane representative the Church has had for a long, long time".

I think that this accolade should go, without a doubt, to John XXIII, who was a liberal and innovative reformer and who presided over the Second Vatican Council. Sadly, his views were not 100% popular with the hierarchy.

John Paul II was, it goes without saying, a good man, but I would not agree with everything that he stood for.

It was in 1985 that he declared that homosexuality is an "intrinsic moral evil" aand that it should be seen as an "objective disorder".

In 1988 in his pastoral letter Mulieris Dignitatem he ruled out the chances of women ever becoming priests.

In 1989 the Cologne Declaration was signed by 293 European theologians. It criticised the Vatican regime for interference and authoritarianism. Later another version was produced by Italian theologians. Rome reponded by imposing an oath of obedience to the teachings laid down by the Pope and the college of bishops on al priests and others who held any position of authority in the church. I stress that this was not covering those occasions on which the Pope is deemed infallible because he is passing on a message from God.

In 1993 the Veratatis Splendor encyclical claimed that birth control was an "intrinsic evil". (My view is that over-population of the planet is one of the gretest dangers that the human race faces.)

In 1994 the Vatican backed Christian Democrat party is defeated after years of power after evidence of the party being awash with corruption. Giulio Andreotti, six times Prime Minister and the politician who was closest to the Vatican, is subsequently tried and acquitted of murder and mafia involvement.

In 2000 there was outcry when a Vatican document branded all other religions as flawed and inferior.

John Paul II wa the most travelled Pope that there has ever been and it is in this arae that I think some of his greatest moments came. When he visited Cuba in 1998 he persuaded Castro to allow the Catholic population of the island to celebrate Christmas. He prayed alongside the then Archbishop of Canterbury in Canterbury cathdral (which brought out the worst in Ian Paisley), visited Jerusalem, reached out to Orthodox Christians in Greece and Armenia and was the first pope ever to visit a mosque.

When his pen portraits are painted by the obituarists, he should be dispayed warts and all.
 
Saturday April 2, 09:30 PM

Pope John Paul died 9-30pm

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul II, the Pole who headed the Roman Catholic Church for 26 years and played a key role in the fall of communism in Europe, has died, the Vatican has announced. He was 84.

The news was immediately announced to around 60,000 people gathered in St Peter's Square on Saturday evening and was met with a long applause, an Italian sign of respect. Bells tolled and many people wept openly.



"Our Holy Father John Paul has returned to the house of the Father," Archbishop Leonardo Sandri told the crowds.

A Vatican statement said the Pontiff died at 9.37 p.m (8.37 p.m. British time) in his private apartment.


R.I.P.
 
I think he deserves respect from every person. I personally am an existentialist but that doesn't mean I would make " inappropriate " comments on his passing . I know the points that I disagree on but I would celebrate this man as a great person and inspite of my opinion of some of his views he did so much good during his ministry. He travelled worldwide to spread a message of peace . His influence helped to bring down communism in Poland . He intervened when he saw inequality and had the charisma to influence people irrespective of religeon.
 
Its incredible watching history play itself out infront of you. I watched the entire of september 11th its the most amazing and memorable day i can ever remember. Compelling to watch.
 
I suppose, Brian, I was really thinking of his endless ferrying around the world, trying to engage people in the concept of peace and harmony, and of his role in the push towards bringing down the European communism. Hearing tonight for the first time that he excommunicated any dissenters from his chosen line, and not being aware of the 2000 pronouncement that other religions are inferior, tones down the assessment.

Still, that is the line taken by a ghastly Scottish male representative of Catholicism on tv a night ago: if you don't agree with everything in the religion, it isn't going to change because you don't, so go elsewhere. Presumably, bog off and join one of those inferior religions.

Interesting to see if the Vatican will opt, with its' usual nose for politics, for an Asian or African pope next, seeing that Catholicism has grown apace in those two areas the most. If it's an African, it'll be curious to see how he can balance the inheritance of whole generations of Africans dying because of AIDS, and the denouncement (by this late Pope) of the use of condoms in helping to suppress its' spread.
 
The Catholic stance towards the spread of AIDS versus contraception is simple; the problem is not that people don't use contraception, the problem is that people are engaging in promiscuous sex.
 
I think that the cardinals will be very conservative in their choice. I don't think that they have yet got over John XXIII - of whom, you will have gathered, I was a bit of a fan.
 
The problem is that African males will take some reining back: culturally, they are averse to putting rubbers on their willies, and equally, they're all too keen to make 'play-play' after a night in the beerhalls. There is no sense that this is 'promiscuity' - it's just as natural as watching footie on tv.

The spread up and down sub-Saharan (for which, read non Muslim) Africa is hugely due to long-distance truck drivers stopping off for more than a midnight snack at roadside shanties, from country to country, and carrying the infection likewise. They infect their wives and they, in turn, infect their foetuses. There has to be a sweeping culture change, but as it is the male who dominates the household (when he isn't dying of AIDS), wives would be very hard-pressed to insist on 'protection' when having sex.

The attempt at trying to convince millions of men to have sex only with one partner, when historically their tribal chieftains had dozens of wives, is an uphill struggle, as AIDS agencies know.
 
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