Prince Harry
- Thread starter Diamond Geezer
- Start date
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,884
Brian, forgive me if you already knew this, but if you encounter a webpage in German or one of quite a few other languages, go here
Translations
Copy and paste the web page address from the address bar into the relevant space, choose the translation option from the dropdown box e.g.German to English and it will translate the page into the newly selected language eg English
Translations
Copy and paste the web page address from the address bar into the relevant space, choose the translation option from the dropdown box e.g.German to English and it will translate the page into the newly selected language eg English
BrianH
At the Start
Derek - I was aware of the information on the site that you put up. It has little to do with the fact that the Duke of Windsor (Edward VIII that was) was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party's policies - though this doesn't mean that he favoured extermination!.
Going further back, there are also instances of the two nations (well, parts of what is now Germany, as it didn't exist as a nation). Some military historians would argue that had it not been for Prussians led by Marshal Gebhard von Blucher, known as "Father of the fatherland", striking against Napoleon's right wing as the French army attacked Wellington's front the rench would have won at Waterloo.
(In later years, by the way, por old Blucher's mental health was highly suspect - stories say that at one stage he believed he was pregnant with an elephant by a French grenadier!)
Another oddity is that in the American War of Independence - or the Revolutionary War as some of them over there like to call it - some battles were fought by George III's Hessian (German) redcoats against British settlers, some of whom had not long left these shores. So, the Brits were German and the Yanks were British!
Diamond - thanks, I am aware of the translation sites also. I got the gist of Derek's posting but, as I'm sure you know, some of the "translations" you get are highly amusing!
Going further back, there are also instances of the two nations (well, parts of what is now Germany, as it didn't exist as a nation). Some military historians would argue that had it not been for Prussians led by Marshal Gebhard von Blucher, known as "Father of the fatherland", striking against Napoleon's right wing as the French army attacked Wellington's front the rench would have won at Waterloo.
(In later years, by the way, por old Blucher's mental health was highly suspect - stories say that at one stage he believed he was pregnant with an elephant by a French grenadier!)
Another oddity is that in the American War of Independence - or the Revolutionary War as some of them over there like to call it - some battles were fought by George III's Hessian (German) redcoats against British settlers, some of whom had not long left these shores. So, the Brits were German and the Yanks were British!
Diamond - thanks, I am aware of the translation sites also. I got the gist of Derek's posting but, as I'm sure you know, some of the "translations" you get are highly amusing!
D
Derek.Burgess
Guest
Brian,
the Duke of Windsor (Edward VIII that was) was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party's policies - though this doesn't mean that he favoured extermination!.
Where did you find this from?
the Duke of Windsor (Edward VIII that was) was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party's policies - though this doesn't mean that he favoured extermination!.
Where did you find this from?
D
Derek.Burgess
Guest
Edward VIII, also known as the Duke of Windsor was born on 23rd June 1894 at White Lodge in Surrey, England. Son of George V and Queen Mary, he was named Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David Windsor but was known to his family as "David" and later became publicly known as the Duke of Windsor. He succeeded to the throne following the death of his father in 1936.
Alleged allegations during his short reign, that he was having an affair with Wallis Simpson, the American wife of a London shipping broker, emerged and he was advised by both the Government and the Head of the Church of England to reveal all. Subsequently, in December of that year he abdicated and his brother, the Duke of York then became George VI.
Edward VIII, King of EnglandEdward and Mrs. Simpson fled the country and following their marriage in 1937 at Chateau de Cande, Monts, France, they resided both in France and the USA. He was created Duke of Windsor during the Second World War and governed the Bahamas from 1940 until 1945.
In 1937 he visited Germany where he met Adolf Hitler. Speculation that he was a liaison to Hitler's Germany was rife. However, there was no proof of this, albeit it was known that he sympathized with the Nazis.
Specualtion is not Fact. Sympathy does not mean support.
Alleged allegations during his short reign, that he was having an affair with Wallis Simpson, the American wife of a London shipping broker, emerged and he was advised by both the Government and the Head of the Church of England to reveal all. Subsequently, in December of that year he abdicated and his brother, the Duke of York then became George VI.
Edward VIII, King of EnglandEdward and Mrs. Simpson fled the country and following their marriage in 1937 at Chateau de Cande, Monts, France, they resided both in France and the USA. He was created Duke of Windsor during the Second World War and governed the Bahamas from 1940 until 1945.
In 1937 he visited Germany where he met Adolf Hitler. Speculation that he was a liaison to Hitler's Germany was rife. However, there was no proof of this, albeit it was known that he sympathized with the Nazis.
Specualtion is not Fact. Sympathy does not mean support.
BrianH
At the Start
Derek, from history. Had Hitler won the war he intended to put him in as puppet of GB. Why, there was even a piece on Channel 4 news this evening thst covered the period. There is much on the net - try this chosen at random:
Edward and Adolf
Edward and Adolf
How many would want to swap places with him and have the so called luxury life which for me has more negatives than positives ?
Okay he made a mistake for which he has apologised so make as many allowances for him as you would for yourselves.
Okay he made a mistake for which he has apologised so make as many allowances for him as you would for yourselves.
D
Derek.Burgess
Guest
Brian,
i like that,a lot.
Would you say that he was a Nazi from that piece?
Without resorting to a search of the net.(yet)
I am not persuaded that Edward VIII was a Nazi or that he actively supported Hitler.
It is true,however,that the victors in any war,write the history.
Was Edward VIII alleged Nazi connections ever released under the 30 year rule?
i like that,a lot.
Would you say that he was a Nazi from that piece?
Without resorting to a search of the net.(yet)
I am not persuaded that Edward VIII was a Nazi or that he actively supported Hitler.
It is true,however,that the victors in any war,write the history.
Was Edward VIII alleged Nazi connections ever released under the 30 year rule?
BrianH
At the Start
Not all the wartime (and pre-wartime) documents on Edward and his German connections have yet been released. As I'm sure you know, this sometimes happens with ultra-sensitive stuff. I am surprised that you have never before heard about the relationship between the Duke of Windsor and Nazism. Don't forget that in the thirties much of the aristocracy were so concerned about Soviet communism that Facism was seen not as the lesser of two evils but rather the solution to the problem.
The following are known facts. While they do not offer absolute proof , they represent pretty strong circumstancial evidence.
Following Edward's accession, the German embassy in London sent a cable for the personal attention of Hitler himself. In part, it read: "An alliance between Germany and Britain is for him (the King) an urgent necessity." Alan Lascelles, Edward's private secretary, gave his own harsh judgment of the situation: "The best thinthat could happen to him would be for him to break his neck."
In October 1937, Edward and his wife - by now the Duke and Duchess of Windsor - visited Nazi Germany. They met Hitler, dined with his deputy, Rudolf Hess, and even visited a concentration camp. The camp's guard towers were explained away as meat stores for the inmates.
At the outbreak of war, the duke served as a military liaison officer in Paris before eventually ending up in Lisbon after the French capitulation. Hitler, wishing to bring the duke into his camp, made an abortive attempt to coax Edward and his wife to Spain, which was then, of course, sympathetic to the Nazi cause.
But the duke soon moved on to become Governor of the Bahamas from 1940-45. It was while he was there that he is said to have made his views explicit. He reputedly told a journalist that "it would be a tragic thing for the world if Hitler was overthrown". To an acquaintance on the island, the Duke reportedly said: "After the war is over and Hitler will crush the Americans...We'll take over...They (the British) don't want me as their King, but I'll be back as their leader."
The FBI has released some files which include an opinion that the Duchess of Windsor was having an affair with Joachim von Ribbentrop. (It is known that she had a number of affairs after marrying Edward.) A memo dated 13th September 1940, sent by an FBI officer to J Edgar Hoover says: "An agent has established conclusively that the Duchess of Windsor has recently been in touch with von Ribbentrop and was maintaining constant contact and communication with him. Because of their high official position, the duchess was obtaining a variety of information concerning the British and French official activities that she was passing on to the Germans."
Files released in this country in January 2003 allege that that Wallis Simpson was a 'Nazi agent'. It was rumoured that Wallis had access to top secret government files which were sent to King Edward, and which he notoriously left unguarded at his Fort Belvedere residence. Even as Edward was abdicating, reports were sent to the Home Office from a Special Branch man following Wallis in exile in France, claiming that 'Mrs. S. might flit at any moment . . . to G [flee to Germany].'
The Austrian ambassador, Albert Mensdorff, reported on a conversation he had had with the then Prince of Wales 1933. He wrote of his amazement that the prince openly stated his sympathies for Nazi Germany. Edward also announced that, due to the communist threat, Britain would also ultimately uphold the beliefs of the Nazis. The prince said he wanted no more war but, if it should come to that, Britain must win and that meant siding with the Germans, not the French. The ambassador asked Edward his opinion on ending the National Socialist dictatorship, but the prince did not reply. Mensdorff got the impression that he hadn’t really given much serious thought to the ideas they had been discussing. Nevertheless, Edward did not seem to be shy about airing his views of Germany.
That's enough to be going on with...
The following are known facts. While they do not offer absolute proof , they represent pretty strong circumstancial evidence.
Following Edward's accession, the German embassy in London sent a cable for the personal attention of Hitler himself. In part, it read: "An alliance between Germany and Britain is for him (the King) an urgent necessity." Alan Lascelles, Edward's private secretary, gave his own harsh judgment of the situation: "The best thinthat could happen to him would be for him to break his neck."
In October 1937, Edward and his wife - by now the Duke and Duchess of Windsor - visited Nazi Germany. They met Hitler, dined with his deputy, Rudolf Hess, and even visited a concentration camp. The camp's guard towers were explained away as meat stores for the inmates.
At the outbreak of war, the duke served as a military liaison officer in Paris before eventually ending up in Lisbon after the French capitulation. Hitler, wishing to bring the duke into his camp, made an abortive attempt to coax Edward and his wife to Spain, which was then, of course, sympathetic to the Nazi cause.
But the duke soon moved on to become Governor of the Bahamas from 1940-45. It was while he was there that he is said to have made his views explicit. He reputedly told a journalist that "it would be a tragic thing for the world if Hitler was overthrown". To an acquaintance on the island, the Duke reportedly said: "After the war is over and Hitler will crush the Americans...We'll take over...They (the British) don't want me as their King, but I'll be back as their leader."
The FBI has released some files which include an opinion that the Duchess of Windsor was having an affair with Joachim von Ribbentrop. (It is known that she had a number of affairs after marrying Edward.) A memo dated 13th September 1940, sent by an FBI officer to J Edgar Hoover says: "An agent has established conclusively that the Duchess of Windsor has recently been in touch with von Ribbentrop and was maintaining constant contact and communication with him. Because of their high official position, the duchess was obtaining a variety of information concerning the British and French official activities that she was passing on to the Germans."
Files released in this country in January 2003 allege that that Wallis Simpson was a 'Nazi agent'. It was rumoured that Wallis had access to top secret government files which were sent to King Edward, and which he notoriously left unguarded at his Fort Belvedere residence. Even as Edward was abdicating, reports were sent to the Home Office from a Special Branch man following Wallis in exile in France, claiming that 'Mrs. S. might flit at any moment . . . to G [flee to Germany].'
The Austrian ambassador, Albert Mensdorff, reported on a conversation he had had with the then Prince of Wales 1933. He wrote of his amazement that the prince openly stated his sympathies for Nazi Germany. Edward also announced that, due to the communist threat, Britain would also ultimately uphold the beliefs of the Nazis. The prince said he wanted no more war but, if it should come to that, Britain must win and that meant siding with the Germans, not the French. The ambassador asked Edward his opinion on ending the National Socialist dictatorship, but the prince did not reply. Mensdorff got the impression that he hadn’t really given much serious thought to the ideas they had been discussing. Nevertheless, Edward did not seem to be shy about airing his views of Germany.
That's enough to be going on with...
A
Ardross
Guest
There was a programme on C4 last year I think which whilst recounting much of what Brian states also said that there were documents that made it clear that Churchill deliberately packed him off to the Bahamas to get them out of German influence in Lisbon
D
Derek.Burgess
Guest
Hi Brian.
I am not unaware of the movements of Edward during the period 1932-1937.
1940-1945 he was as you say in the Bahamas.
I can find nothing to disagree with in your recording of History,as you relate it.
I am having a problem with the Former period,and how his views in 1932 can be can be construed as giving support to the Nazis.
Mrs Simpson was,by all accounts a cross between Mother Teresa and Myra Hindley,or something worse.
I find it interesting that "Lascelles, Edward's private secretary, gave his own harsh judgment of the situation: "The best thin that could happen to him would be for him to break his neck."
A recent Prime Minister had similar feeling about some members of his Cabinet.
Would you agree there is a lot of "Sources close to" and not much from the Horses mouth so speak,in the piece that you have written?
There was a public outcry in the early years,after the War about the the Treatment of Edward and Mrs Simpson.
Do you remember if it was Pro or Contra? (i was very young at the time)
---------------------------------------
Now going to do a search on the Internet to wise myself up a bit.
I am not unaware of the movements of Edward during the period 1932-1937.
1940-1945 he was as you say in the Bahamas.
I can find nothing to disagree with in your recording of History,as you relate it.
I am having a problem with the Former period,and how his views in 1932 can be can be construed as giving support to the Nazis.
Mrs Simpson was,by all accounts a cross between Mother Teresa and Myra Hindley,or something worse.
I find it interesting that "Lascelles, Edward's private secretary, gave his own harsh judgment of the situation: "The best thin that could happen to him would be for him to break his neck."
A recent Prime Minister had similar feeling about some members of his Cabinet.
Would you agree there is a lot of "Sources close to" and not much from the Horses mouth so speak,in the piece that you have written?
There was a public outcry in the early years,after the War about the the Treatment of Edward and Mrs Simpson.
Do you remember if it was Pro or Contra? (i was very young at the time)
---------------------------------------
Now going to do a search on the Internet to wise myself up a bit.
A
Ardross
Guest
It just gets worse
The Duchess of York has come to the defence of Prince Harry after he sparked global outrage by wearing a Nazi-style uniform at a fancy dress party.
She told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "I want someone to stand up for him and say he is a very good man, and I'm that person. Because I know what it is like to have a very bad press and to be continually criticised. It is very tiring and it is very unpleasant.
"He is a young man, and he does a lot of good when he is following his mother's work with Aids in Africa and he is a very good young man and I just think it is time that the press backed off and stopped criticising him. They have been criticising him now for months and months.
The Duchess of York has come to the defence of Prince Harry after he sparked global outrage by wearing a Nazi-style uniform at a fancy dress party.
She told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "I want someone to stand up for him and say he is a very good man, and I'm that person. Because I know what it is like to have a very bad press and to be continually criticised. It is very tiring and it is very unpleasant.
"He is a young man, and he does a lot of good when he is following his mother's work with Aids in Africa and he is a very good young man and I just think it is time that the press backed off and stopped criticising him. They have been criticising him now for months and months.
I think that an abdicated monarch is as much entitled to his views as anyone is. A lot of people were sympathetic towards Stalin at the time and he murdered millions too.
For me the views of the monarchy are of no consequence whatsoever and haven't been of any relevance since long before Edward VIII was around.
If a monarch tried to impose such views on the people then they'd chop his head off.
For me the views of the monarchy are of no consequence whatsoever and haven't been of any relevance since long before Edward VIII was around.
If a monarch tried to impose such views on the people then they'd chop his head off.
A
Ardross
Guest
I can't have that . The taxpayer continues to fund these people . They are privileged beyond belief . It seems however that Eton can't teach history properly anymore . Then of course we know that Harry would never have got in had he not been a prince as he is far too stupid .
I'm not that bothered about the monarchy, but we'd possibly be better off without them if it meant a new constitution and a new start. That would depend upon whom it was that wrote the constitution.
But what Harry thinks or does is of no consequence at all is it?
But what Harry thinks or does is of no consequence at all is it?
K
Kathy
Guest
I agree with The Duchess of York to some extent. Prince Harry probably is a very good young man, not as good as Prince William mind you, but they seem to be like chalk and cheese. Harry is obviously a little more feisty than William, and for me personally, I am just quite pleased one of the Royal family appears to be "normal", not unlike Princess Anne's Zara! These younger Royals (or some of them) will make mistakes, like all kids do, but having the Press on his back watching his every move, cannot help matters. Let him be for a couple of years, as I am not overly interested in his childish mistakes, unless they affect national security of course! 
Ardross, being a member of the Royal family does not ensure you inherit brains!
Ardross, being a member of the Royal family does not ensure you inherit brains!
A
Ardross
Guest
William apparently was with him when he chose that outfit and did not seek to dissuade him . This hardly bodes well either .
As for the party they went to - a Colonial and natives party one end black and one white . One can hardly think of a more tasteless racist idea . The upper classes remain as out of touch as ever . These people were the Countryside Alliance set - what lovely people .
As for the party they went to - a Colonial and natives party one end black and one white . One can hardly think of a more tasteless racist idea . The upper classes remain as out of touch as ever . These people were the Countryside Alliance set - what lovely people .
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
In the Mirror today they invited some old jewish bloke who survived one of the concentration camps to give his views.Naturally he wasn`t over impressed and fair enough. Thing is the photo of him accompanying the piece showed said old hero wearing a New York Yankees cap....talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
GO SOX
GO SOX
A
Ardross
Guest
Yes that escapes me too
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
the New York Yankees are Americas most successful and hated baseball team.There nickname in the states is the Evil Empire and in New England the Yankee symbol (even if you know nowt about baseball you must have seen it hundreds of times on caps) is very much hated.
I posted a similar message on the Boston Red Sox message board and have been roundly condemned...mainly because they dont get the English sense of humour i suppose.They thought i was deadly serious
I posted a similar message on the Boston Red Sox message board and have been roundly condemned...mainly because they dont get the English sense of humour i suppose.They thought i was deadly serious
So what IS the Yankees' symbol, Euro? I'm not sure an ancient Jew wearing a Yankees' cap signifies the same as someone wearing a fake Nazi uniform and swastika. As far as my limited knowledge of American sports history goes, the Yankees haven't gassed the Sox fans for being different, have they?
If a member of the BNP (and this sounds like a party theme they'd love!) was photographed thus, there'd be no end to calls for its' immediate disbandment on the grounds of encouraging racial hatred, blah, blah. (And I'm not quite sure how 'colonials and natives' included the Nazis - another example of historical balderdash!)
There are loads of young people who do inappropriate things - as Kathy's said, it's part of the experimentation in the growing-up process. But Harry IS different, he's a member of our Royal family, which, like it or not, represents this country and its' values through its' functions. Therefore, I do not care to have any one of its' members showing up OUR country in such a crass manner.
It probably is time to abolish the monarchy. If they can't behave better than the shabby in their marriages, relationships, and in their attitudes towards other people of the world, etc., then they serve no national purpose.
If a member of the BNP (and this sounds like a party theme they'd love!) was photographed thus, there'd be no end to calls for its' immediate disbandment on the grounds of encouraging racial hatred, blah, blah. (And I'm not quite sure how 'colonials and natives' included the Nazis - another example of historical balderdash!)
There are loads of young people who do inappropriate things - as Kathy's said, it's part of the experimentation in the growing-up process. But Harry IS different, he's a member of our Royal family, which, like it or not, represents this country and its' values through its' functions. Therefore, I do not care to have any one of its' members showing up OUR country in such a crass manner.
It probably is time to abolish the monarchy. If they can't behave better than the shabby in their marriages, relationships, and in their attitudes towards other people of the world, etc., then they serve no national purpose.
Tout Seul
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,628
Not an apologist for the monarchy by any means but in my living memory there hasn't been a government that I would trust to draft a constitution.
As for upper class twits that hold colonial and natives parties they're stupid, doesn't make all the so-called upper class stupid.Sterotyping and envy..Certainly not PC.
Harry - thoughtless 20 year old- hardly an original or capital sin.
As for upper class twits that hold colonial and natives parties they're stupid, doesn't make all the so-called upper class stupid.Sterotyping and envy..Certainly not PC.
Harry - thoughtless 20 year old- hardly an original or capital sin.
prince regent
Conditional
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 588
the uniform he wore was of the africa korps
the africa korps and werchmarct (army) did not wear swastika armbands
did harry not only decide to wear an innapporopriate uniform but to make it a little more contreversial
the africa korps and werchmarct (army) did not wear swastika armbands
did harry not only decide to wear an innapporopriate uniform but to make it a little more contreversial