Question Time

Brand could have anticipated the question as its one which people who believe that Parliament is a part of the solution rather than the problem, always ask.

He could of course rubbed the politicians noses in it if he were fleet of foot, or if he had an army of advsiers, they'd probably have briefed him.

We all know how publicity hungry politicians are, and how desperate they are to attach themselves to celebrities if they think they can get some reflected assoication. Despite Cameron proclaiming his dislike of this trait in opposition he's done the exact opposite in government and his attempts to find a replacement for Boris as mayor are hysterical. We also know how insanely jealous politicians are of people who can reach out and engage a bigger numerical audience than they can.

As voter turn out falls and more and more and people disengage with lending their support to this rotten process the political classes have been desparately scrambling around to shore up their mandate (they need us, more than we need them remember). They've introduced postal votes, and have been examining on-line voting, lowering the age, and even introducing voting booths in supermarkets. All Brand had to do is taunt them with the fact that he's got more twitter followers, than the Labour party has voters, why would he want to get himself immersed in the Westminster morrass and lose his connection. He could go further and say that the political classes are becoming less and less relevant and that people are finding their expressions through other media of which he's a part. This sort of thing plays on their insecurities (and MP's have them in bucket loads) as they're essentially a hunted specie and know deep down that they live in a sheltered world and are terrified of being thought to be out of touch. He could go so far as to taunt Penny Mourdant by suggesting that he'll have overtaken them by the next election too. He should perhaps have followed up by feigning some humility that the platform of a stand up commedian (not a very funny one) might hand him the advantage, but equally remind the audience that she shouldn't try to mimmick him if she was serious about being a publicly funded comedian by honouring a bet struck in the officers mess for her TA, by slipping the word '****' into her speech six times. He could have appealed to his followers to download Penny Mourdants risible speech and ask themselves why on earth anyone who cared for the real issues of the day, effecting real people, would want to engage and lend an endorsement to this pantomime, and suggest it is symptomatic of the contempt for which the political classes hold the people who put them into power. He should have slaughtered her. She couldn't even make a stump speech as it happens, she had to read it out

He could legitmiately point out that single seat MP's achieve very little, other than tokenism. The establishment would rather take them in where they can do less. As I said, Green causes have gone backwards under this government despite Caroline Lucas taking her seat. The more telling example of course is Martin Bell. Remember the anti-sleaze candidate of Tatton who defeated Conservative Trade Minister Neil Hamilton? Within a decade of Bell leaving, we have the Expesnes Scandal. Not sure Bell has a legacy (unless you count George Osborne!).

Finally Brand could have come clean and simply said he'd struggle to do the constiuency work (which he would) he just hasn't got the skills set to do it, and if he explained why, I suspect most people would understand. In any event, if Mourdant's attempts at comedy are an indication of what he'd achieve in politics

Oh just look at this speech of hers..... doesn't it make you proud of our parliamentary process

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...enny-Mordaunts-****-speech-to-Parliament.html
 
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To say most of the audience was against him is completely wrong..he got plenty of applause from them..until he answered the question about standing for parliament..if you watch his face when asked that..you can see him seriously sh1t his pants..and thereafter was as quiet as a church mouse

I've said earlier...and Clive just said same again..the fact people take him seriously really does show us the level our country is slipping to..social media is to blame imo..he would have been laughed off in the 70's and 80's as a lightweight celeb trying to please a crowd by appearing to feel for them.

He has certainly fooled plenty...even after they have had years of seeing what he really is..all of a sudden he's somehow credible..to the twatter crowd ..and thats the only place he will get fans..because anyone who did actually watch this...and a few on this thread appear not to have...could only come to one conclusion..unless they have lost all judgement character and behaviour..it was a pitiful display from the first sentence...which was talking over someone and calling them "luv"

i'd be watching the show before sticking up for the clown
 
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Do they really take him seriously though, EC1?

Anyone lining-up and taking pot-shoots at today's political-classes, is going to be popular with a sizeable section of the public. A few cheers in support doesn't mean the audience have been duped by his message, and align whole-heartedly with his worldview.......they just like to see politicians take one in the hoop, every now and then.

The only people who appear to be taking Brand serious as a political-entity are you and Clivex! :D
 
i'd read the thread Grass..there is only Clive and me that don't see him in that way..are you reading the same thread??

you got it arse about

and yes..there were quiet a few asking questions from the audience..who clearly supported him..he hardly had any potshots apart from two childish digs at Farage that actually made him look the dick rather than Farage

you do need to watch it really
 
I think grass is just turning the tables away from the fact that he thinks a retard has "something to say"

There is a problem that some of his drivel will be swallowed by the morons who follow him and that they will seriously take on board his conspiracy theories, admiration for islamic terrorists, economic illiteracy and distaste for genuine democracy
 
Clive's just worried that the advance of social media as a communication platform has neutralised the print medias impact. Brand has more Twitter followers than all the UK News Corp titles combined. Do you honestly think for one second that Clive used to decry the risible rubbish that the right wing dominated print media have pumped out for decades? No, because it suited his world view. Indeed, he's already tried to hit back by linking the Daily Mail into this thread. It's the desperate flailing of a decadent and crumbling rotten edifice. Social media has allowed anyone to become the publisher. No longer is it the preserve of plutocratic press barons to tell us what we're allowed think. You look at how the Daily Mail in particular has had to respond to this onslaught. They can't. They've surrendered. They can no longer report news because it moves faster than they can get a print version out. Instead they have to run stories designed to inflame our views of issues and hope to manage and manipulate our emotional reaction to old news and trust that this drip feeding can convert the anger into conservative votes. You can also see how Cameron was dragged kicking and screaming into setting up Levesson, and after nearly a year of taking evidence, he rejected the judges findings before he could even have had time to read the report. Now that's more rotten then anything Brand has said, because Cameron knows he's the beneficiary of the traditional media ssupport. Hell, he's trying to hollow out the BBC to allow Sky to emerge as the dominant news broadcaster (because they'll provide a more informed and less sensationalised service?) No. Because they'll support him. It's all crooked and unilateral free spirited individuals garnering support through their own platforms is what frightens Clive and his like. Well, I should qualify that by saying individuals with whom he disagrees, but the process is becoming unmanageable for the establishment. People are turning to other avenues to get their information from, and that's why people are scarred of Brand and others, not because of what he says

Clive is a tired old barbarian whose ways and methods are being overtaken. Clive is an obsolete dinosaur. Brand is the future!!!!

Brand for PM
 
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Clive's just worried that the advance of social media as a communication platform has neutralised the print medias impact. Brand has more Twitter followers than all the UK News Corp titles combined. Do you honestly think for one second that Clive used to decry the risible rubbish that the right wing dominated print media have pumped out for decades? No, because it suited his world view. Indeed, he's already tried to hit back by linking the Daily Mail into this thread. It's the desperate flailing of a decadent and crumbling rotten edifice. Social media has allowed anyone to become the publisher. No longer is it the preserve of plutocratic press barons to tell us what we're allowed think. You look at how the Daily Mail in particular has had to respond to this onslaught. They can't. They've surrendered. They can no longer report news because it moves faster than they can get a print version out. Instead they have to run stories designed to inflame our views of issues and hope to manage and manipulate our emotional reaction to old news and trust that this drip feeding can convert the anger into conservative votes. You can also see how Cameron was dragged kicking and screaming into setting up Levesson, and after nearly a year of taking evidence, he rejected the judges findings before he could even have had time to read the report. Now that's more rotten then anything Brand has said, because Cameron knows he's the beneficiary of the traditional media ssupport. Hell, he's trying to hollow out the BBC to allow Sky to emerge as the dominant news broadcaster (because they'll provide a more informed and less sensationalised service?) No. Because they'll support him. It's all crooked and unilateral free spirited individuals garnering support through their own platforms is what frightens Clive and his like. Well, I should qualify that by saying individuals with whom he disagrees, but the process is becoming unmanageable for the establishment. People are turning to other avenues to get their information from, and that's why people are scarred of Brand and others, not because of what he says

Clive is a tired old barbarian whose ways and methods are being overtaken. Clive is an obsolete dinosaur. Brand is the future!!!!

Brand for PM

You might like to consider that the daily mail linked article was rammed with facts.

If you prefer single sentence slogana on twitter then thats your choice
 
Not a single one of their facts incidentally being attributed.

The Daily Mail have done this before where they've reported 'facts' and have subsequently been found out to be ... how can we put it .... lying. Until they source them Clive I'll treat their opinions when they present them as facts as being questionable until they choose to demonstrate that they've learned from their previous

For better or worse, slogans on Twitter feed are only the update of the traditional newspaper banner headline are they not?

That people choose to take their information this way increasingly is just an expression of their free will isn't it? Surely you support that as a great libertarian don't you? So you can't complain when huge swathes of the population turn to comrade Brand in preference to the brain washed bilge that the right wing press barons have served up since Rothermere and Beaverbrook and more latterly of course, Murdoch


The future is bright, the future is Brand
 
Grass doesn't think people take him seriously though Warb..and yet 9 million followers on twatter hasn't he?

its called mass brainwashing

no wonder Savile got away with kidding ..pun...most of the people most of the time...he was never under threat with the protection and how people saw him as "really good for charities"

you can kid a lot of gullible people..a lot of the time
 
Savile is a symptom of our rotten and corrupt political class, so much so that he was invited into the policy process and handed a knighthood

Brand by contrast is a calling, a Messiah, a voice of conscience, and expression of our inner will to free ourselves of this parliamentary bondage.
 
Authoritarians with genuine contempt for the public ppinion will always complain about parliamentary democracy
 
Grass doesn't think people take him seriously though Warb..and yet 9 million followers on twatter hasn't he?

It hardly means they're all gone to bleeding' vote for him though, does it!?

Brand has done stand-up, TV, movies, writes newspaper columns, and is very active on social media. Of course he has a wide and varied list of followers - but the simple act of following him on Twitter, hardly means people have been "brainwashed" or agree with his politics.

If you see a film called 'Logan's Run' advertised this Christmas, I'd give to a miss if I was you. :D
 
It hardly means they're all gone to bleeding' vote for him though, does it!?

Brand has done stand-up, TV, movies, writes newspaper columns, and is very active on social media. Of course he has a wide and varied list of followers - but the simple act of following him on Twitter, hardly means people have been "brainwashed" or agree with his politics.

If you see a film called 'Logan's Run' advertised this Christmas, I'd give to a miss if I was you. :D


you clearly haven't read this thread..he's got plenty of support..you haven't watched QT either..he had plenty in that ..vocal with it..until he came to a standstill due to large amounts of pooh pooh appearing in his pants
 
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Authoritarians with genuine contempt for the public ppinion will always complain about parliamentary democracy

Since when has public opinion ever translated into how your MP represents you?

OK try this (as there is no answer I know of) albeit we all have our suspicions. Your MP is by definition your member of parliament who is supposed to represent the collective views of their constituents as mandated to do so by the constituency. They are chosen of course from narrow party lists with many coming from outside of that constituency, but that's another issue.

What percentage of their decisions do you think weigh in their voting patterns from the following list

Party loyalty
Career prospects
Constituency interests
National interest
Third party business interests

Try dividing this up into a pie chart and guessing what percentage of 'constituency interests' you think they allow to affect their representation. We can probably get a clue from the number of times they ask us for our views? (barely ever)

I'd imagine 95% of their influence combines from the party and their own career prospects. In this regard they don't represent 'you', and any one thinks they do is a fool. Their first loyalty is to the party. The second loyalty is to themselves (albeit these can be inter changable depending on the individual)

This isn't about parliamentary representative democracy, it's all about representing 'the party' and don't let anyone kid you otherwise. This is why Brand is right, and why Clive is wrong. There are other democratic models, but Clive clearly has never read any of the philosophy behind them so just bristles when he hears certain words without having the necessary appreciation of them. If you're looking for a representative model in the UK Clive, the TUC is nearer, where delegates can be mandated by their members to vote in a certain way if that is the memberships wish, regardless of what the indvidual delegate thinks personally. MP's don't do that. MP's vote according to the way they're told to do so by their party whips. If you're looking for a really poor model, than the AGM's of most PLC's are a good one where the decision making process is dominated by absent instituions, and where the board are barely ever bound by whatever motion is passed anyway
 
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Since when has public opinion ever translated into how your MP represents you?
What is an MP reasonably supposed to represent, sex lives, gambling habits, should they drink plenty of alcohol likes some of their constituents?

What I worry about is an MP losing their independent train of thought, not being able to think critically and challenge their own flawed political perspectives because of the many factors you have mentioned, and those factors include the demands of 'trying represent' everyone (which is a fatally flawed concept in itself) in a constituency.

If you've got the right insight in politics I don't think you need to talk to every single person to glean what you should be saying in parliament, there's more efficient ways of representing which involve having some background knowledge and evidence to back up your arguments.
 
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he got plenty of applause from them..until he answered the question about standing for parliament..
I don't understand the idea that unless a person is standing for election as an MP, they have to right to express a political opinion or view. ?
 
Since when has public opinion ever translated into how your MP represents you?

OK try this (as there is no answer I know of) albeit we all have our suspicions. Your MP is by definition your member of parliament who is supposed to represent the collective views of their constituents as mandated to do so by the constituency. They are chosen of course from narrow party lists with many coming from outside of that constituency, but that's another issue.

What percentage of their decisions do you think weigh in their voting patterns from the following list

Party loyalty
Career prospects
Constituency interests
National interest
Third party business interests

Try dividing this up into a pie chart and guessing what percentage of 'constituency interests' you think they allow to affect their representation. We can probably get a clue from the number of times they ask us for our views? (barely ever)

I'd imagine 95% of their influence combines from the party and their own career prospects. In this regard they don't represent 'you', and any one thinks they do is a fool. Their first loyalty is to the party. The second loyalty is to themselves (albeit these can be inter changable depending on the individual)

This isn't about parliamentary representative democracy, it's all about representing 'the party' and don't let anyone kid you otherwise. This is why Brand is right, and why Clive is wrong. There are other democratic models, but Clive clearly has never read any of the philosophy behind them so just bristles when he hears certain words without having the necessary appreciation of them. If you're looking for a representative model in the UK Clive, the TUC is nearer, where delegates can be mandated by their members to vote in a certain way if that is the memberships wish, regardless of what the indvidual delegate thinks personally. MP's don't do that. MP's vote according to the way they're told to do so by their party whips. If you're looking for a really poor model, than the AGM's of most PLC's are a good one where the decision making process is dominated by absent instituions, and where the board are barely ever bound by whatever motion is passed anyway


This is just rubbish. What other democratic models are there other than representation?

and when there is representation it is natural that parties and alliances will be formed. Parties are formed because it is far more efficient and appealing to electors to have a trout of people of differing skills and expertise rather than one mp who thinks he knows the lot.

Mps cannot be experts on every subject. Not by a million miles. The vast bulk of legislation is detailed minor amendments. A lot is very boring and complicated. There is a natural elementof trust that the party is dong the right thing. but backbenchers have revolted and will do again.




So what if they vote along the party line? If the party gets it wrong then they lose an election.


Why is it assumed that if delegates represent nothing other than themselves to an electorate they are less liable to outside influence? Not a chance.
 
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I don't understand the idea that unless a person is standing for election as an MP, they have to right to express a political opinion or view. ?

The point is that how many get 20 minute interviews on Newsnight ? When it is blatantly obvious they do not have the capability to think through their opinions?

What some on the left dont get is that he is the worst possible advert. He's widely and rightly disliked but his low iq and lack of articulacy certainly lends many to surely think, is that the best you have got? Also wrapping up what many will see as just issues in conspiracy theories and admiration for sinister sects is not the message anyone serious on that wing will wish to see.

Wasnt it obvious which panellist disliked him the most and that the others were rather pleased to see him there?
 
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The point is that how many get 20 minute interviews on Newsnight ? When it is blatantly obvious they do not have the capability to think through their opinions?

What some on the left dont get is that he is the worst possible advert. He's widely and rightly disliked but his low iq and lack of articulacy certainly lends many to surely think, is that the best you have got? Also wrapping up what many will see as just issues in conspiracy theories and admiration for sinister sects is not the message anyone serious on that wing will wish to see.

Wasnt it obvious which panellist disliked him the most and that the others were rather pleased to see him there?

yep..the labour woman didn't like him..whereas others were laughing ..true Clive

Ice..no you don't have to stand..but you know when someone puts you on the spot like that and you give the most pathetic answer its possible to give and make yourself look a complete muppet..its time to question what actual skills you do have..its certainly not a quick wit..or thinking on your fit..two skills he actually should have in his line of work...is he really a comedian?..f00k me
 
Yes. Her body language was that of pure hatred. She despised him.

i think the final point is that there are an awful lot of people from many walks of life who would make interesting guests despite not being celebs. These people will work hard and be relative experts in their fields. They may have something illuminating to say. Stephen king and Hamlisch McRae the economics journalists come to mind. They are too communicators. A charity leader too and so on..

the bbc should not be chasing ratings and sensationalism by using ill informed retards. Its remit should go beyond that.
 
This is just rubbish. What other democratic models are there other than representation?

and when there is representation it is natural that parties and alliances will be formed. Parties are formed because it is far more efficient and appealing to electors to have a trout of people of differing skills and expertise rather than one mp who thinks he knows the lot.

Mps cannot be experts on every subject. Not by a million miles. The vast bulk of legislation is detailed minor amendments. A lot is very boring and complicated. There is a natural elementof trust that the party is dong the right thing. but backbenchers have revolted and will do again.

So what if they vote along the party line? If the party gets it wrong then they lose an election.

Why is it assumed that if delegates represent nothing other than themselves to an electorate they are less liable to outside influence? Not a chance.

I love it when you start by denouncing something as rubbish and then ask a question that betrays your own lack of understanding and knowledge base. You've demonstrated before that you aren't read in this field, and consequently you're reduced to shooting from the hip. Indeed, a few months ago I gave you the desert island test and you ended up designing Soviet democract as your natural response only to get all arsey when you were told what you'd done. It became apparent that you didn't even know what a soviet was.

At least Icebreaker appears to be versed in anarchist models which as he recognises are much nearer to democratic purity than anything we have in this country. You i suspect problem think anarchy is a concept of the Sex Pistols

The rest of your answer is riddled with so many flaws and such a poor understanding it doesn't warrant a response until you've gone away and done some reading
 
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To say most of the audience was against him is completely wrong..he got plenty of applause from them..until he answered the question about standing for parliament..if you watch his face when asked that..you can see him seriously sh1t his pants..and thereafter was as quiet as a church mouse

I've said earlier...and Clive just said same again..the fact people take him seriously really does show us the level our country is slipping to..social media is to blame imo..he would have been laughed off in the 70's and 80's as a lightweight celeb trying to please a crowd by appearing to feel for them.

He has certainly fooled plenty...even after they have had years of seeing what he really is..all of a sudden he's somehow credible..to the twatter crowd ..and thats the only place he will get fans..because anyone who did actually watch this...and a few on this thread appear not to have...could only come to one conclusion..unless they have lost all judgement character and behaviour..it was a pitiful display from the first sentence...which was talking over someone and calling them "luv"

i'd be watching the show before sticking up for the clown

I couldn't agree stronger with every single sentence in this post.

It was surprising how almost white his face went when asked that question, very strange.

That we can't all come to a consensus on Brand is very strange to me!
 
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