Racing for Change

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Ardross

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,468
It was refreshing to see Hislop and Mellish tearing into this pile of marketing shite on RUK the other day.

From their original proposals RfC seems determined to destroy what is the best in Flat racing and carry out a shameful abdication of the role of UK flat at the end of the season .

We should not be saying have an end of season ballyhoo at the end of September and then watch the rest of the world take over. The Breeders Cup and the other overseas events attract only a small number of the best horses. The UK racing calendar however has lots of gaps - no G1 sprints after early Sept , no G1 12f race after the KG , no Group 1 7f race at all, no G1 7f race for 2 yo fillies . Why have to go for the Melbourne Cup - make the Cesarewitch much more lucrative and those horses could stay at home,

The fact remains that people are much more likely to go racing and become interested in it - if it is not too expensive to get in , if the food is not utter mass produced shite( Compass have been appointed the caterers for Jockey Club Racecourses- they are atrocious) - look for example at how good the food is at York and the outlets there are always packed out and doing a roaring trade , and there can be no doubt that outside the tracks like Chester that have their own special attractions- when the racing is of good quality.

I can't help but feel that the problems with the Flat season are simple - too much racing , too much AW racing in particular and the fact that the season has in many ways despite the big meetings lost its salient points. The recent developments when the classics have not been entirely dominated by Godolphin and Ballydoyle is a good thing - the thought we might return to that level of tedium is a matter for dread.
 
But you can just ignore the AW, as many people do, as a racegoer/punter, Ardross. It rumbles away perfectly well through the year, it contains a number of nice Class 2 and 3 races as well as Listed, so it's not all rubbish. It provides hundreds of Annual Members, probably 100% in the OAP bracket, with a reason to get out of bed of a morning and enjoy a few quidsworth of quiet punting - little baby Exactas, and that sort of stuff. Nobody pretends it's anything grand, which is an illusion held by its detractors.

If you look at the turf (Flat) season, then that is in summertime competition now, and has been for at least a couple of decades, with an increasing number of other distractions. It has to justify its high entry fees by add-ons, which would be unnecessary if the fees went down, but then the racecourses would only bleat that their 'racing side' of the courses (now that they're all conjoined exhibition halls, conference centres, wedding exhibitions and car boot fairs) wasn't keeping up its end of the income stream. Accounts are kept separately, so when the income from racing isn't competing with the income from everything else, it's under pressure to attain higher goals. All courses are very competitively, commercially driven. I'm not sure there's too much turf Flat - but what there is, is too much in the way of other things to do, places to see, etc., which don't cost a second mortgage to attend.

As for Compass: execrable. But cheap (and nasty) compared to in-house or much better contracted catering. Thus, all the more profit for JC Estates!
 
Ardross said:
We should not be saying have an end of season ballyhoo at the end of September and then watch the rest of the world take over. The Breeders Cup and the other overseas events attract only a small number of the best horses. The UK racing calendar however has lots of gaps - no G1 sprints after early Sept , no G1 12f race after the KG , no Group 1 7f race at all, no G1 7f race for 2 yo fillies . Why have to go for the Melbourne Cup - make the Cesarewitch much more lucrative and those horses could stay at home,
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Why should the top horses stay at home and not contest these top international races? Should we pull stumps and close ranks, keeping all our best horses at home? What is wrong with our decent horses competing on the international stage? Surely it goes to show how good our racing product is that we can compete at such a level on the worldwide stage. What is wrong with horses going to Australia for the Melbourne Cup? Why precisely do we need to replace it with a homegrown version?

Last time I looked British racing wasn't a case of "local races for local people" and why the hell should it become that way and devalue our product?
 
Exactly - I've been banging on recently about how piss-poor the British turn-out is for US Flat and French jumps - both offering super prize monies for our better nags. In fact, both offering better prize money for even our middle range horses! Why not enter into the positive side of globalization, rather than sit back and think that everything must take place at home? Athletes go all over the world to compete for the top awards - I can't see why our horses aren't treated the same.
 
With respect , that is not at all what I was suggesting . The point is why should UK horses have to go abroad after say Sept or July to run in top races at their distance ?
 
Has Shadow Leader not already answered that?

Why should we want them to?

Whatever way you look at it, winning a Cesarewitch will never equate to a European going and winning a Melbourne Cup. Why should it? International racing should be embraced; an insular racing calendar is the last thing we need surely.
 
The point is why should UK horses have to go abroad after say Sept or July to run in top races at their distance ?
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After the turnout for this year's Juddmonte, my heart bleeds...
 
Ardross said:
There won't be a Sea The Stars for a while - this year's race is hardly typical nor is it any indication of how an end of year championship would be patronised.
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Not so sure we haven't just seen another STS in St Nick.
Perhaps you are saying there should be a choice as to whether horses travel to the big International meetings or not ?
 
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I can't help but feel that the problems with the Flat season are simple - too much racing , too much AW racing in particular and the fact that the season has in many ways despite the big meetings lost its salient points.
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Main problem for flat racing is that jumps racing is at its probable all time height of popularity. Not only is this a golden era for stars, but the PR is excellent too .King, Mullins, Henderson and of course Nichols, give the impression that they are promoting the sport

Flat racing blows its appeal with its cold balance sheet obsession with stud values. Whatever the anoraks may think, that has very limited appeal to the public. The retirement of STS, whilct not untypcial, was another depressing example
 
On a positive note Ascot have embraced the free entry idea and are giving free entry to all for Sagaro stakes day. £10 will get you an upgrade to Premier (Well worth it if you want a drink quickly and decent viewing).
 
I'd go further and say that breeding racehorses holds absolutely no interest for the public, clivex. The (British) TBA does nothing to encourage the wider compass of horse-racing by, say, taking a mobile display around to racecourses and, I'm pretty sure, never sends representatives to school careers days to promote stud work as a long-term choice of work. While racing, per se, has developed the British Racing School and young apprentices are now given very good riding opportunities and, if they're any good, they're talked up big-time on tv, the TBA is nowhere to be seen during race meetings. In fact, the best a breeder might hope for is an often rather condescending reference to being an owner-breeder if their horse wins, and then in the context of "Isn't it lovely when it's a family horse like that?" Ask 500 people at random which Flat jockeys they've heard of and you'll probably get Frankie Dettori from some of them; ask which jumps jockeys, and the answer might be Tony McCoy if you're lucky; ask which famous trainers and owners they know of and most will pull a face. Ask them if they have heard of any breeders, and...

I've been disappointed with the Flat's obsession with hoiking colts off to stallion duties when they're still essentially babies. I suppose it always used to happen, but while there will always be the response "Well, what has he got left to prove?", the answer to that is nothing financially, but surely a year or even two more wouldn't harm in terms of generating appearance curiosity and interest? If you knew that the Derby winner was going to be around for another year or two, you'd be more likely to go to a meeting to See The Derby Winner than not, were you just Jane and Joe Public. We fail to build the romance around horses now. Imagine what ZENYATTA's fans number, since she smashed the notion that she wouldn't see off those big, burly boys? 13 straight wins wasn't enough - she had to show that there was gender equality and, following the public's revulsion at seeing BARBARO and EIGHT BELLES fatally injured at premier meetings previously, the girl has done a huge amount of PR work for American racing. Possibly redeemed it.

We need to think of longer-term, charismatic horses who the public can bond with in more than two or three quick Group 1's and then off and away, never to be seen again. Even if the stallions could be dragged away from the breeding sheds for a few days here and there, to parade in glory before racing, would be some way forward.

You're right about the general popularity of NH against the way it was a few decades ago (bar the usual turn-out for the Grand National). But this isn't because of National Hunt's trainers - it's because it's been made an all-year event, with summer jumping and face-painting, animal petting zoos, food and drink fayres, falconry displays, etc., etc. It tore off its stays and toned down its glass-shattering county accents and told the general public it could be fun, too. And the public - still vast amounts of whom still don't know (or want to know) a gaskin from a gasket - roll up to be entertained. They still won't know who Clive Smith is, or even really care - they will, however, enjoy seeing the horses jump, scream when they fall, stuff themselves with burgers and ice cream, win a teddy bear off the hoopla stall, and go home pretty pleased with a combination of family day out, a few bets for Dad, and good fresh air.
 
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clivex said:
Not only is this a golden era for stars, but the PR is excellent too .King, Mullins, Henderson and of course Nichols, give the impression that they are promoting the sport
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This is a good point, I think the Flat has had it's stars too in the last 2 years with STS, Zarkava, Goldikova and Zenyatta but the big yards PR is awful.

Particularly Ballydoyle who's PR is atrocious. Just have Aidan O'Brien who just says "listen, he's a nice horse and we think, listen, a lot of him". At least Godolphin have a PR man in Simon Christford. The most successful yard in flat racing should look to appoint a proper PR person rather than relying on Aidan, who whilst is undoubtedly a genius trainer, is pretty poor on the PR front compared to his NH peers.
 
Gamla Stan said:
This is a good point, I think the Flat has had it's stars too in the last 2 years with STS, Zarkava, Goldikova and Zenyatta but the big yards PR is awful.

Particularly Ballydoyle who's PR is atrocious. Just have Aidan O'Brien who just says "listen, he's a nice horse and we think, listen, a lot of him". At least Godolphin have a PR man in Simon Christford. The most successful yard in flat racing should look to appoint a proper PR person rather than relying on Aidan, who whilst is undoubtedly a genius trainer, is pretty poor on the PR front compared to his NH peers.
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None of them really connect with Joe Public like the Nh guys do though. They all come accross as toffs In the U.K. and it's like trying to draw blood from a stone with the Irish guys. I am refering to the biggest yards by the way.
 
An exception to this would be Gosden who is fantastic with the media but he's spent time in the US.

See what you say about toffs, doesn't help when Prescott is getting done for hare coursing etc.

Plenty of the NH lot come across as Toffs too!
 
Tregoning is a "toff" and comes across superbly well too.

Krizon. Totally agree about Zenyatta and the public but not about summer jumping and I think you should never underestimate how important PR is
 
I'd much rather listen to Aidan O'Brien than a hired spin doctor.
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Oh really? I think that most would say that Crisford is much more likely to tell it as it is than the obvious spin machine that is Ballydoyle
 
I think there is a cultural difference here.

Most Irish people would say Aidan O'Brien is not a great talker but that he is a polite and sincere man. A lot of English people, on the other hand, seem to think that because he looks down at the ground when he talks, or mumbles rather, that you can't trust a word he says.

I also think a toff takes longer to be accepted in the rest of the UK and Ireland than in the southern half of England.
 
That is complete bollocks

I think its less a cultural difference than your prejudices

To give a good example. one of my best racing mates is a scouser from the roughest end (walton) of liverpool

And which trainer does he absolutely worship? Henry Cecil

Also, the idea that english think AOB is being "unpolite" and the irish think otherwise is rubbish. Its probably waht you would like to think but certainly not something ive ever heard mentioned It is what he says that frustrates rather than how he says it. Its not that its untrustworthy rather than vague. Plenty of Irish posters on here have certainly made that point
 
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clivex said:
That is complete bollocks

I think its less a cultural difference than your prejudices

To give a good example. one of my best racing mates is a scouser from the roughest end (walton) of liverpool

And which trainer does he absolutely worship? Henry Cecil

Also, the idea that english think AOB is being "unpolite" and the irish think he is rubbish. Its probably waht you would like to think but certainly not something ive ever heard mentioned It is what he says that frustrates rather than how he says it. Plenty of Irish posters on here have certainly made that point
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I'm not saying English people find him "unpolite" (your word). I'm saying English tend to find Irish people who hum and haw and look at the ground to be shifty. And I didn't say toffs are not accepted in other parts of the UK or Ireland, I said it takes longer for them to be accepted.

And aren't my prejudices part of a cultural difference, like your own?
 
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There was something i read a few years back that the afro carribean habit of slightly looking away when being asked questions, can be interpreted as rudeness in the UK, whereas it is isnt intended to be so, but i still think you are overplaying his mannerisms.
 
I know John Oxx enjoyed a mild dig at AOB's expense during his golden summer by mentioning the July Cup once or twice. But I see a difference between that and the complete mistrust some people have of anything AOB says.

It's one thing for a trainer to be a bit carried away after his horse has won a race but quite another for people to say it's done for nothing but commercial reasons.
 
At least Jim Bolger is a good PR man ey?

:D

Others will know more but isn't it part of the licencing procedure for trainers that you have to do a course on PR?
 
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