Racing Post Trophy

Wasn't all that impressed myself, and though he'd have a chance in a soft ground Irish Derby, I'd doubt he'd get anywhere near the achievements of Camelot.
 
Would've still won a RP trophy this year though.:p
Camelot earned an OR of 119 for his 2yo season, Kingsbarns won't get near that, or Camelot's current 124, ultimately.
 
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Surely he's only been made Derby fav by default. That really wasn't a good race by any stretch of the imagination. Been a funny season for 2 year olds and even Bolger's horse despite running up a sequence has people wondering is there better hiding in the woodwork

SMS is never in a hurry with his young horses and Telescope could be anything. He looked a right horse on his only outing as did Mars who could be a stone better than Kingsbarn and probably is.

I'd have to agree Camelot who I never ever rated would have beat that lot hands down today
 
davidjohnson said:
Kingsbarns could win by 20l and I'll still be happy that taking him on was the right thing to do.
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Tom Segal said this morning - unless I misheard him - that he felt Kingsbarns was no value at the price and in almost the same sentence said he thought the horse would win and win by some way. If I felt that way about a horse I'd expect it to be oods on any odds against would be value.

Obviously purely on the horse's form there was no value in the price but other factors needed to be taken into account: the stable's form in the race, their other entries whom he usurped, etc.

I didn't have a bet in the race but wouldn't have dared take him on.
 
Token bet at 5/1 simply because the compilers got it all wrong midweek. He was a 9/4 shot in my book.
 
Highly unlikely the winner is 7ls better than trading leather looking at the time of trading leathers debut run on the same card as duntle,infact one of the quickest debuts of the season.If thats the case then,you'd have to assume most of those runners didn't go on the ground,they maybe even able to turn that form around on faster ground.I don't look at the irish form much or these 3yr races but i thought trading leather would be worth following after debut run.Wouldn't know what to make of the winner as taken at face value the form looks good,i think it looks suspect,at least if the winner has to beat the same horses on fast ground.
 
I think Trading Leather is a nice prospect on faster ground and obviously Dawn Approach stands out for the Guineas. But a major concern for me is Gentleman Jim's record at getting horses to these races. What the **** has happened to Parish Hall for example?
 
My worry with Dawn Approach is why has Jim Bolger run him so much at 2yo.? If he had been with Gosden or Cecil he'd have run 3 or 4 times max unless of course he's developed so quickly not the type to train on.

Unless you're Frankel who wasn't born until he was a 3yo ;0) no matter how good you may look you need to improve significantly from 2 to 3yo to win a Guineas.


For me he takes too long to pick up in his races and lacks the Wow factor of past winners and if there's something out there that can travel well and produce that instant acceleration associate with top class horses Dawn Approach is certain to find one too good for him. Despite having won 6 races he has only one piece of top class form having started long odds on in 4 of his last 5 races.

When he won the Coventry he beat Olympic Glory who was having only his 2nd outing. He wasn't even the yard first string but ran DA to under a length with Dane O'Neill on board. Had Hughsie been on him you'd have to think he'd have gone even closer. The Hannon horse has won 3 times since which is being viewed as a boost to Dawn Approach when it maybe should be quite the opposite and Olympic Glory has actually improved past him.

Cristoforo Colombo finished upside them both at Ascot but has done nothing to enhance the form. Olympic Glory beat a Group 3 horse in France while Dawn Approach won anothing race in Ireland and a poor renewal of the Gimcrack beating his own stable companion who couldn't raise a gallop in the Coventry and will end up Group 2 horse at best.

Dawn Approach is visually the best of them but overall there's too much a muchness about them and Aiden has got to be thinking he can win the Guineas with whichever horse he decides to send.

The horse I really like is Telescope 25/1 most people assume because he has already won at a mile he'll be more of a Derby horse than a Guineas horse which was more or less the case with Golan when he turned up and won the Guineas. He's got bags of speed Telescope, Sir Michael decided to take him out of both the Gimcrack and the Racing Post to give him that bit more time to develop. He's gotta go somewhere before the Derby and I suspect that somewhere will be the 2000 Guineas.
 
For me, Kingsbarns didn't pick up all that well, and my immediate thoughts were that he might make a Leger horse, though his pedigree wouldn't necessarily support that view. Certainly more of a Brian Boru than a Motivator or Authorized; RPR have him running a 120, which is higher than any of those (1lb above Camelot), but I'd be surprised if he were to live up to it.
In a race run at no great pace (surprised KF didn't make more use of Steeler) the Coolmore horse had to be ridden virtually right out to assert, and with Van Der Neer all over the place on the ground and Trading Leather disappointing, the form as a whole wouldn't be worth a hatful of crabs, though I can see why yardstick handicappers would see it differently.
 
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