Reserves

sunybay

sunybay

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A reserve won the Northumberland Plate


I think for betting affairs
the reserves should be treated as runners in the books and then aplly the rule 4 if not running.
 
No need for that system if reserves are employed as they were in the Northumberland Plate, it was common knowledge before the Racing Post went to print that both reserves were actually runners
 
Depends how you look at it. There was a race in the week in Ireland were the two reserves finished first and second. We were effectively paying out on 6 places in a 20 runner or so handicap.

Good value for those backing the reserves and those who didn´t and would have had placed horses had the resérves not run were not out of pocket.
 
Originally posted by Irish Stamp@Jun 28 2008, 05:11 PM
Depends how you look at it. There was a race in the week in Ireland were the two reserves finished first and second. We were effectively paying out on 6 places in a 20 runner or so handicap.

Good value for those backing the reserves and those who didn´t and would have had placed horses had the resérves not run were not out of pocket.
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Surely it's unrepresentative to suggest you were paying out on six places based on Suny's methodology? Why not ensure that no horse which has a proviso eg "will not run unless slightly overcast", makes the final cut instead of a reserve who will definitely run?
 
Surely that would just result in an endless supply of self-certifications though Rory?

You can either pull it out at the last dec stage and have a reserve run or you can not tell them you´ll pull out if it doesn´t rain and then withdraw on the basis that the horse "hasn´t eaten up" etc.

With regards the Rule 4 it could be open to exploitation - ie. bookmakers could price the reserves up at 8/1 instead of 12´s or 14´s each to ensure that in the likelihood that they don´t run there´ll be a Rule 4 and in effect screw the punters out of cash.
 
Originally posted by Irish Stamp@Jun 29 2008, 04:47 PM
Surely that would just result in an endless supply of self-certifications though Rory?

You can either pull it out at the last dec stage and have a reserve run or you can not tell them you´ll pull out if it doesn´t rain and then withdraw on the basis that the horse "hasn´t eaten up" etc.

With regards the Rule 4 it could be open to exploitation - ie. bookmakers could price the reserves up at 8/1 instead of 12´s or 14´s each to ensure that in the likelihood that they don´t run there´ll be a Rule 4 and in effect screw the punters out of cash.
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Agree with your last point Martin ~ mine was slightly sarcastic tbh!
 
Originally posted by sunybay@Jun 28 2008, 02:54 PM
A reserve won the Northumberland Plate


I think for betting affairs
the reserves should be treated as runners in the books and then aplly the rule 4 if not running.
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Ladbrokes used to use that system for Irish racing. It caused nightmares.
 
This story is not as innocent as you may believe. Whilst I want to be careful what I say, I've heard through some very credible sources at work that it's no coincidence that Dandy Nicholls's horse was a non-runner and then his son rode the Martin winner.
 
I don't mind if it's clear that the reserve is going to run, and preferably when it's got a chance on the book. There was always likely to be a non runner, and as I saw who Arc Bleu was trained by I made a point of checking his form. It's when youv'e got a load of no hopers as reserve's, and it's not even worth wasting your time looking at their form, and one wins at 50/1 that it becomes a wind up. People will be going on about conspiracies to rob punters and so on, and the fact these horses showed marked improvement on their previous form - back to the old and on going debates again. Arc Bleu won a valuable handicap at the Curragh this time last year when slowly out the stalls, and off a nice flat mark he was always going to have a big chance in the plate.
 
Originally posted by LUKE@Jun 30 2008, 12:56 AM
I remember Dun Doire being a reserve in the Thyestes.
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Indeed, and that day it was "known" hours before the NR was declared that DD would definitely get in.
 
Originally posted by Gamla Stan@Jun 29 2008, 11:37 PM
This story is not as innocent as you may believe. Whilst I want to be careful what I say, I've heard through some very credible sources at work that it's no coincidence that Dandy Nicholls's horse was a non-runner and then his son rode the Martin winner.
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Even if that's true, it's not breaking any rules is it?
 
It depends what reason Dandy gave for withdrawing Lost Soldier Three. I don't think "so my son gets a ride on a reserve we've all made a few quid on" is a valid reason.

It's pretty unethical.
 
Well, Dandy and his mates seemed well pissed-up when interviewed on ATR later in the afternoon, one of them even let slip that they were expecting a winner in Ireland on Sunday. Dandy's face was a picture when this snippet was announced.

Tax Free 4/1?
 
I wouldn't trust either Martin or Nicholls as far as I could them 'em. And I''m a little old lady
Far too many of theirs go in on big days with rows of duck eggs in front their names - leaves a very nasty taste
 
I certainly agree over Martin - I often can't believe how he regularly gets away with his blatant tactics yet the powers that be let him get on with it. He must know where all the bodies are buried, he gets away with whatever he wants so often!

Dandy's a little different - most of his are sprinters and due to the very nature of those types of races it's often entirely possible for a horse with seemingly no recent form to win. That said, I know what you mean.
 
Don't forget what happened to David's Lad, Shadow.

Davids Lad will miss the Martell Cognac Grand National next Saturday after the Irish Supreme Court upheld a 42-day racing ban.

The four-strong Eddie Joe's syndicate have now accepted the six-week suspension handed to Davids Lad in February.

Mattie Lynch, one of the syndicate, said: "We have had no joy so it's no Aintree for us this year.

"It was a once in a lifetime shot but I suppose it could be worse and now we'd be looking at the Irish Grand National or maybe the attheraces Gold Cup."

Denis Egan, chief executive of the Irish Turf Club, said of the decision: "We are thrilled.

"Hopefully we will get the same result at the full hearing. It will be going to a full hearing at a date in the future."

The decision finally dashed the hopes of running the horse in the big race at Aintree on 5 April.

Davids Lad, who had been 14-1 second favourite for the Grand National, was suspended by stewards at Naas racecourse after finishing last in the Paddy & Helen Cox Memorial Newlands Chase.

National entries: 105 left in Aintree marathon
The stewards' ruling that the race had been used as a schooling ground for the Tony Martin-trained gelding was accepted by the Irish Turf Club.

The nine-year-old's suspension will last until the day after the National.

# One punter stands to lose his £25,000 stake if Davids Lad does not take part at Aintree.

The gambler placed an ante-post win bet on the horse and will forfeit his cash if it is a non-runner.
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