Richard Dunwoody

Nice to see such decent reasoning, Graysons, good to see you over here!

It is also well worth pointing out that although point to pointing is also more than capable of producing ground too hard to race on (this must be the first year in a long, long time that Lockinge hasn't raced on firm thus ensuring 2 and 3 runner fields!), as a sport it invariably produces better ground than the racecourses. This is because not only is the turf very old in a lot of cases, but it is far more lightly raced upon than that of the licensed venues, which is where their ground gets wrecked.
 
I notice Nicholls sends Poquelin Novice Chasing tonight at Newton Abbot.

A few of the top yards seem to like introducing a decent hurdler to the larger obstacles at this time of year to get some valuable experience into them prior to targetting the better races from October onwards. King did it with Penzance (although that horse never progressed) and I seem to recall Seebald started his novice season in the summer months.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@May 13 2008, 05:29 PM
It is also well worth pointing out that although point to pointing is also more than capable of producing ground too hard to race on (this must be the first year in a long, long time that Lockinge hasn't raced on firm thus ensuring 2 and 3 runner fields!), as a sport it invariably produces better ground than the racecourses. This is because not only is the turf very old in a lot of cases, but it is far more lightly raced upon than that of the licensed venues, which is where their ground gets wrecked.
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Spot on - the Mackenzie and Harris annual is never backward in highlighting which courses are situated on ancient turf, and mostly talks of these racing surfaces in comparatively glowing terms. I'm not in front of my annual right now and can't recall any examples off the top of my head (how very unlike me), but I think there are around a dozen tracks where specific mention is made of ancient turf, ancient water meadows, or similar.

Glad to be here, SL, many thanks!

gc
 
Originally posted by numbersix@May 13 2008, 05:39 PM
A few of the top yards seem to like introducing a decent hurdler to the larger obstacles at this time of year to get some valuable experience into them prior to targetting the better races from October onwards. King did it with Penzance (although that horse never progressed) and I seem to recall Seebald started his novice season in the summer months.
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All true. The only possible drawback I have thought of to this practice is that it means the horses involved will more often than not be encumbered with a penalty when they reappear against the better animals in the autumn. Then again, presumably the thinking is that they are going to make up into classy enough chasers that this ought not prove to be an insuperable imposition.

gc
 
It will generally be the better quality four year olds like Poquelin from the big yards going chasing early to make the most of the reducing allowance they receive. Since the change of rules regarding allowances at the start of last season they have pretty much lost all of their advantage by Christmas and Mr Nicholls has always been shrewd enough to take whatever advantage the BHA give him for his young chasers. I also wonder whether we may see him take the same early advantage with some of his other proposed four year old chasers and whether others will be brought in early for an Autumn campaign.

I also wonder which others will be sharp enough to use this to their advantage this season.
 
Well observed Maruco. Nicholls' success is of course very much a result of intelligence, and keeping up with this kind of change is part and parcel

graysonscolomn, part of the problem with Penzance is that in King's opinion he was so severely penalized for his success in his 4yr old year that he's never again come down enough in the weights to be competitive - as King commented only the other day. The handicapper rarely relents when a horse has had that kind of success, and it can and does destroy a horse's career having to lump top weight around so often, if it's not quite good enough to win at Group level. Horse's can get very demoralised by it too which affects their will to win. In Penzance's case, King is totally frustrated by the situation.
 
Originally posted by Maruco@May 14 2008, 12:46 PM
It will generally be the better quality four year olds like Poquelin from the big yards going chasing early to make the most of the reducing allowance they receive. Since the change of rules regarding allowances at the start of last season they have pretty much lost all of their advantage by Christmas and Mr Nicholls has always been shrewd enough to take whatever advantage the BHA give him for his young chasers. I also wonder whether we may see him take the same early advantage with some of his other proposed four year old chasers and whether others will be brought in early for an Autumn campaign.

I also wonder which others will be sharp enough to use this to their advantage this season.
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The reasoning for Nicholls' early blooding of 4yos over fences is correct, but the choice of horse to cite is not - Poquelin is already five, and was running off the same weight of 10-12 as everything else bar the mare on Tuesday night.

I checked this not to score points, but to make sure nothing had changed again rules-wise - I was pretty sure 4yos weren't allowed to run in chases for another few weeks, but they have been moving the starting date earlier over the last few years (which is why you had the likes of Mycenean Prince running in handicaps last summer in receipt of well over a stone's worth of clemency). Not quite this far into the season yet, though, by the looks of it.

Nicholls already targets all of the few 4yo-only chases on the calendar in the autumn, such as that very good contest at Warwick, and I'm sure we can expect more of the same - plus more use of the remaining all-ages contests where the allowance is still generous enough - this term.

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@May 14 2008, 01:33 PM
Well observed Maruco. Nicholls' success is of course very much a result of intelligence, and keeping up with this kind of change is part and parcel

graysonscolomn, part of the problem with Penzance is that in King's opinion he was so severely penalized for his success in his 4yr old year that he's never again come down enough in the weights to be competitive - as King commented only the other day. The handicapper rarely relents when a horse has had that kind of success, and it can and does destroy a horse's career having to lump top weight around so often, if it's not quite good enough to win at Group level. Horse's can get very demoralised by it too which affects their will to win. In Penzance's case, King is totally frustrated by the situation.
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HS, I actually made the point about Penzance, and was referring to his Novice chase debut at Hereford in May which he won (as a 5 year old so on level terms with the other runners).

He ran in another 4 chases without winning, but with the benefit of hindsight, being runner up to Denman wasn't too bad. He reverted to hurdles the followng April but has mainly struggled off his mark. I don't think his hurdling mark can be linked in anyway to his chasing record, if that is indeed what you were intending to do. I also think he would be interesting returned to fences given the level of form he achieved over the larger obstacles (horses like Lennon and Pablo Du Charmil also giving respectability to his form).
 
Sorry Jeremy, I had it in my bonce that Poquelin was still a four year old so thanks for putting things straight. I wouldn't regard your response as point-scoring as I'm all for accuracy and getting things right and should have checked myself.

The general point still stands though and I wonder if some of his rivals will take his four year old chasers on with similar sorts this season or will he get a free hand again.
 
numbersix, so it was you! I'm aware of Penzance's record btw as I've been a member of Elite since before he was foaled. King is currently wondering whether to give him a go over fences, give him a few spins on the flat again as his mark there is relatively low, or put him away for the year given the current fast ground. It's hard given his hurdle and chase marks to know quite what to do with him
 
Is he still eligible for one of those intermediate chases? I know they are usually for first or second season chasers, but as he only had one season chasing technically could he still run in one? I guess they could test the water that way as to how much ability is there as opposed to punishing him with a heavy weight in a handicap chase.
 
I'm afraid I'm not sufficiently up with how horses qualify to answer that - but he has schooled well twice over fences in the last week or so, so that's def under consideration
 
Are you a racing journalist grayson? I am guessing from your handle? Who do you write for? The Weekender or Raceform Update (I read the RP and have never seen you in that, but not sure about the other two which I don't read).

I found a blog as well which I am guessing is you as well, and your profile is interesting!
 
Originally posted by numbersix@May 17 2008, 11:24 PM
Are you a racing journalist grayson? I am guessing from your handle? Who do you write for? The Weekender or Raceform Update (I read the RP and have never seen you in that, but not sure about the other two which I don't read).

I found a blog as well which I am guessing is you as well, and your profile is interesting!
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Haven't you heard of The Sportsman? :what: :P

Top man is Jeremy and finally here about two years after I told him to join at Towcester!
 
Thanks gc!

Btw I've also heard Jeremy's punditry on Betfair Radio - very informative!
Good to see you on here sir :D
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy+May 17 2008, 11:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rorydelargy @ May 17 2008, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-numbersix@May 17 2008, 11:24 PM
Are you a racing journalist grayson? I am guessing from your handle? Who do you write for? The Weekender or Raceform Update (I read the RP and have never seen you in that, but not sure about the other two which I don't read).

I found a blog as well which I am guessing is you as well, and your profile is interesting!
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Haven't you heard of The Sportsman? :what: :P

Top man is Jeremy and finally here about two years after I told him to join at Towcester! [/b][/quote]
The Sportsman? Isn't that the ill fated attempt to offer some competition to the RP?

According to your blog Grayson you have rather, left field tastes, shall we say?
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@May 17 2008, 11:43 PM
Btw I've also heard Jeremy's punditry on Betfair Radio - very informative!
Good to see you on here sir :D
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Very kind of you, ta! If you can bear it, I'm on again this Saturday evening, specifically drafted in to cover Cartmel and Stratford. One of my very favourite racing days of the entire calendar, this, even though it looks like they've moved the Grand Veterans' National to the Monday afternoon now. Hey ho.

Numbersix - yep, the blog is mine, and was set up to satisfy a pathological urge to keep writing stuff on racing even after the Sportsman bit the dust. Since then I've picked up the Betfair Radio gig, plus regular work for the monthly edition of Racing Ahead and the odd bit of race-reading for Mackenzie & Harris / Weatherbys Chase / the Weekender... all whilst trying to hold down a full-time job back in library software support, which is kind of what I'm really qualified to do.

I don't know if any of that makes me a journalist per se - I tend to play that down rather as I've had no formal training whatsoever. "Racing media nonentity" is probably nearer to the mark.

Rory - I've read TH for a while without joining, but was moved to once it was no longer possible to read posts just as a guest. And then someone put this thread up on one of my pet subjects and... here we are. It's nice here.

God only knows what's in my profile. It's not been updated since I created the blog!

Many thanks to all of you for your warm greetings, on here and by PM.

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
Welcome to TH Jeremy.

I knew you couldn't resist mentioning the 'C' word although surprised to see no mention of the big race on Saturday The Sticky Toffee Pudding Selling Handicap Hurdle.
 
'Morning, Paul!

Might have known who it was. Be assured the Cartmel seller will be accorded ample coverage on Saturday evening... if I have anything to do with it. ;-D

gc
 
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