Rome

Ok, there isn't a whole lot interesting that goes on in that period - there's all the fight over Octavius gaining power but in that period there isn't a whole lot to write home about. Nowhere near as much as pre-Caesar's death.
 
Nope, 'fraid not.

Claudius was a later period though wan't he - 100 years later? For that period in particular [the Julian perid], there isn't as much that goes on to provide the same amoutn of material as this series, surely? Assuming they'll be keeping a lot of the same characters on, that is.
 
"I Claudius" - and the television series they made of it was brilliant - begins with the emperorship of Augustus (Octavian). Yes, the same son of Attia. Claudius was the grandson of Livia (second wife of Augustus) and of Mark Antony and Octavia (daughter of Attia and sister of Octavian).

On the death of Augustus, Tiberius (Claudius's uncle) succeeded and after him came Gaius (far better known as Caligula). Claudius, uncle of Caligula, succeeded him on his death.

So what's boring after Caesar's death? You have Antiony's affair with Cleopatra, leading to her suicide, Octavian, Antony and Lepidus reigning as the triumvirate, with all the problems you'd expect from that inevitably culminating in Octavian taking on Antony in battle, with the senate's backing (they were wound up by Cicero to do so) and winning. Octavian's mate Agrippa commanded the fleet that saw off Pompey's son. You have the deaths of Brutus and Cicero at the battle of Phillipi, the divorce of Antony from Octavian's sister to go and live it up with Cleopatra (you can imagine the grafitti in Rome for that one). In comes Agrippa again to command the fleet that defeats the forces of Antony. Antony and Cleopatra committed suicide and Octavian has Caesarion, Cleopatra's son by Caesar, put to death. He took the name of Augustus and, despite declaring himself a god at one stage, governed well. With the support of the people, because of his style of governmant, and his old friend Agrippa to fight the battles, it's little surprise that he was one of the few characters in Roman politics of the time to die a natural death.

Tiberius was intelligent but depressive, chose bad advisers and had to deal with the revolt of the senate and the legions - apart from all the usual domestic and sexual politics, Caligula needs no mention here, I'm sure, and Claudius, famous for his limp and speech impediment which hid a sharp brain, was the emperor who added Britain to the Roman empire.

The poisonings, murders of other kinds, acts of incest and sexual deviancy are too numerous to mention here and the reason that I have spent so much space on Octavian/Augustus is because that is where I would expect the next series to go.

There were only 98 years from the death of Caesar to the death of Claudius, who was succeeded by another interesting character - Nero. But that'll be for serir V, I guess. :lol:
 
Ok, ok.....:shy:. I know who Augustus/Octavian is & I know all the guff with Cleopatra (which is all pretty good actually!!) I know bits about Claudius & annexing Britain/allegedly being murdered by his wife so his stepson can accede etc too - but knew it was later. I haven't bothered past the death of Cleopatra though. I stand corrected! :shy:
 
Romans, with the characterisical looks of Saxons eh. :o

Love the David Attenborough programme relating to insects and the like. :D

I love spiders dont you ? or is that just another of my weird quirks ? :ph34r: :ph34r:
 
My mother adored I, Claudius, Dom - that has to be your next read, as it's historically correct, but reads like a good novel! I didn't read it, but I have enjoyed 'Rome' as a potboiler. Silly, silly Vorenus - all that bourgeois (plebeian) correctness, goes off on one and causes his lovely wife's death. Pullo - thug, brute extraordinary, goes all sweet and tender and actually causes his freed maid to fall for him. Funny oldus worldus, isn't it?

Will Atia suffer dreadfully at the hands of Servilia? Will Octavian's voice ever break? Will Vorenus find a new wife? Gosh, it's like a novel by Barbara of the Cartlandii...
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jan 5 2006, 11:38 PM
Will Atia suffer dreadfully at the hands of Servilia?
Well, that one I can answer as they were real people. With Atia's son Octavian being Caesar's heir and part of the ruling triumvirate (later emperor), Mark Antony, another third of the triumvirate being her lover and Octavia, her daughter, being married off to the same Mark Antony, what do you think?
 
Class reply, that! :lol:

Yes, Aunty K - on Brian mentioning it I reckon I, CLaudius is next on the shopping list. To be honest (as you can tell from earlier in the thread) I didn't pay much attention to it all after Caesar bought it as I think that has to be one of the great tragedies of all time - he was such a genius & a brilliant leader. I knwo about the Anthony & Cleopatra stuff but mainly from Cleo's end as I've read quite a bit about her, so I also knew that she was in love with Caesar before Mark Anthony (and about the love child, Caesarion).

I can't quite remember what happened to Atia - I thought she was shifted out of the way pretty quickly as although a woman, she was a nasty, scheming piece of work. From what I remember Octavian was an orphan; a snivelling little one at that!

I do agree about Vorenus though - how sad was that ending? The look in Niobe's eyes was heart-wrenching; as was his reaction.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jan 6 2006, 12:16 AM
From what I remember Octavian was an orphan; a snivelling little one at that!

Not at all - he was born into an equestrian family as Gaius Octavius at Rome on 23 September 63 BC. His father, Gaius Octavius, was the first in the family to become a senator. He did die when Octavian was only four. His mother, Atia of the Julii, had the more distinguished connection. She was the daughter of Julia, Julius Caesar's sister. Hence, Caesar adopting Octavian to make him his heir.

As I said before, despite Octavian/Augustus declaring himself a god at one stage of his career, he was probably the best and most popular emperor that Rome ever had.
 
Is it true that there was a lot of naughty or political graffitti at that time? Or was it largely a theatrical device of the film?
 
And another thing, What did the Romans ever do for us ?
Well, thats what the boys from Monty Python asked but no one answered them :blink: :rolleyes: :o ;)
 
Originally posted by an capall@Nov 5 2005, 02:58 PM
Nor I Paul. Arn't they just places where oppressed people riot all the time?
No , I think you mean Belfast . Our town is as close to the series as can be . You have a guy who has murdered a slave but is a generally good guy. His boss doesn't like it because he's stealing his thunder . It's amazing how litle changes in a thousand years .
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jan 6 2006, 12:45 AM
Is it true that there was a lot of naughty or political graffitti at that time? Or was it largely a theatrical device of the film?
No, the graffitti - and the theatrical acting out of current events - really happened.
 
Let's start a campaign for the Beeb to repeat I CLAVDIVS!

Not just to educate Dom, it really was excellent, with bravura performances from Derek Jacobi, John Hurt, Brian Blessed and probably quite a few good ones from the girls as well.
 
I meant an orphan in that when Octavian got to adolescence there was less mention of his mother; I know who he was & that he was adopted be Caesar - also that he had his brother, Caesarion, murdered, as well as others who stood in his way towards becoming Emperor.

Why thank you Colin for feeling the need for myself to be educated...
 
The television series was made up of two of Robert Graves's books - "I, Claudius" and "Claudius The God".

Shadow Leader, you will love them, I know.
 
Well, yes - still a brother of sorts!

Didn't he also ignore the fact that he was adopted after a while & proclaim himself to be Caesar's true son?
 
At last a cultural topic in which I have sufficient knowledge ,were it appropriate, to make a contribution.Enough of this cooking,Shane Ward(who he!),people listening to johnny come lately no names that might be Stanley Unwin revivalists for all I know, and worse Big Brother!

Rome ,the series, has been superb in that, cleverly weaving a subtantial amount of historical events and accurate detail into a compelling storyline together with a liberal dousing of sex and violence, the makers have drawn in a much wider audience than would be attracted to a documentary or to the excellently produced and acted I,Claudius. Repeatedly put down by many critics, notably the Times-"trashy", 'Rome' has served as an appetiser that hopefully will encourage many more people to examine a period in time which generates an enormous number of events that have parallels and consequences in modern times. The rise and fall of monarchies, democracy, dictators(literally), tyrants, spin-doctors, militarism,colonisation. Attempts at multi-culturalism, immigration, autonomy, education ,corruption, technical progress, the Superpower, world's policeman, it's all there. Like so many lessons to be learned and so, so much easier than learning from our own painful experiences.

As to reading, to coin a Catchphrase, Graves is good but not the right answer. Translated and abridged from sources writing much nearer the time the Penguin 'Classics in Translation' series which I guess is in its thousandth edition by now contains volumes by such as Livy, Plutarch, and Suetonius.Not stodgy boring stuff but the kind of stuff that encouraged a totally disillusioned young 12 year old who fell upon The War with Hannibal (Livy) as something to read during a weekend long detention and gave up reading the Victor/Hornet etc in order to save limited pocket money to buy and, in truth, also to steal new or second hand volumes in the series.

Every few years I return to the versions I acquired in my twenties and each time I am struck by all the parallels that can be drawn and what a gripping read most are.

For what its worth my favourite volume , one of the Greek classic histories, is The Peloponesian War(Thucydides) which at times is a ripping yarn with real life heroes in the wars between the democratic and devious Athenians and the miltaristic ,but generally honourable tyrant-led Spartans.Since my all-time war hero is Brasidas,a Spartan, (who makes Leonidas seem wimpish) ,my sympathies are clear even though the political aruments are generally won by the Athenians
 
I saw bits and bobs of the series.

Call me old fashioned but when Romans start speaking with Essex accents it's time for me to switch channels. Completely ruined it for me.
 
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