Rory turns 'pro'

Premium services get my goat in general. It amuses me to see people who feel that they are so superior that they charge others for tips. I don't care if said product yielding a fancy profit.

That said I understand it's a matter of supply and demand. Unbelievably there's a demand, because people are either too lazy to do their own research or want instant results with minimal fuss.
 
Could I just ask as I'm not up on the who's who in racing but is Dave Massey any relation to Adrian Massey ? For those who don't know Adrian Massey imo used to publish some of the best ratings on the Internet for free. I'm lead to belive he stopped doing so (which is a great shame) as someone in his family developed a gambling problem.

Any know what became of Adrian or what he's upto now ?
 
Not sure if he looks in here any more, but I wish Rory all the best in this endeavour.

Ads for this type of service are formulaic; the testimonials always cheesy tales of massive winners, with nary a hint of any losers, but I suppose there's a limit on how many new accounts a more balanced view will get you. In that sense, there's not really any other way to advertise such a product.

The cheese aside, Rory has been in racing in one guise or another for a long time, and and in my experience, he knows his onions. And he is the least-likely type to do this to stroke his ego.

I hope his is succesful. May all his winning-selections be one's that I picked independently myself, without having to fork-over the cost of a subscription. :D
 
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Good luck Rory. I don't envy the probable pressure involved in doing a job like that....especially if you're a half decent egg. So I hope he proves a success. But if not....I won't delete you as my facebook friend. : )
 
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I'm flattered by the attention gents!

The name wasn't my idea (I wanted to call it "**** Me - there's two of them!", but that was turned down by Betting School, the site which devised and markets the service, and the poor grammar on the homepage is down to them too). I'm not going to spam the forum by attempting to get anyone to join, as the fact that it's been running for nearly eighteen months without me popping in to promote it would suggest. Betting School have a large customer database, and we've done well enough simply promoting it within that demographic.

If you're thinking of setting up your own service, then doing it through an intermediary has its advantages, as you don't have to whore yourself around the marketplace, but the downside is they get most of the money. It's also big negative setting up with a co-author, as you then have to split the smaller slice of the pie in half, meaning that you'll take home less han 20% of the money generated by membership. That said, it's been a positive experience, and the fact that you need to convince someone else that your picks are worthwhile tends to stop you tipping some of the rubbish you might if given a free rein! On the other hand there are plenty of times when a winning tip gets the kybosh from the other fella, which can strain relations, but neither myself nor Dave is an egomaniac, so while there's always a bit of needle in such circumstances, it's soon forgotten. I wouldn't let him tip Jigsaw Financial today, for example, so I've got both barrels this evening, but I'm still the winner in that battle, after the massive jokebag vetoed my 9000-1 tricast at Thirsk last month. :whistle:

As you'd hope, there's no "This is scorching up the gallops, and is expected to win without coming off the bridle" bollocks, just selections based on racereading, form and market analysis. We also make an effort to produce a 1000-1500 word write up each day, so people know why we fancy what we do. It's a lot of hard work, and it's tough keeping the numbers up through the winter, making you wonder why you bother, but we've managed to retain a hardcore of about 100 subscribers who will happily ride out the occasional losing month, while every time we hit the motherlode, it gives the marketing boys an excuse to prepare another mailshot looking for new members. There is an element of the law of diminishing returns about that approach, though, as the mailshot is going to the same people every time. All in all, it's been a rewarding exercise, and I'd not put anyone off giving it a go themselves.
 
rorydelargy said:
I'm flattered by the attention gents!

The name wasn't my idea (I wanted to call it "**** Me - there's two of them!", but that was turned down by Betting School, the site which devised and markets the service, and the poor grammar on the homepage is down to them too). I'm not going to spam the forum by attempting to get anyone to join, as the fact that it's been running for nearly eighteen months without me popping in to promote it would suggest. Betting School have a large customer database, and we've done well enough simply promoting it within that demographic.

If you're thinking of setting up your own service, then doing it through an intermediary has its advantages, as you don't have to whore yourself around the marketplace, but the downside is they get most of the money. It's also big negative setting up with a co-author, as you then have to split the smaller slice of the pie in half, meaning that you'll take home less han 20% of the money generated by membership. That said, it's been a positive experience, and the fact that you need to convince someone else that your picks are worthwhile tends to stop you tipping some of the rubbish you might if given a free rein! On the other hand there are plenty of times when a winning tip gets the kybosh from the other fella, which can strain relations, but neither myself nor Dave is an egomaniac, so while there's always a bit of needle in such circumstances, it's soon forgotten. I wouldn't let him tip Jigsaw Financial today, for example, so I've got both barrels this evening, but I'm still the winner in that battle, after the massive jokebag vetoed my 9000-1 tricast at Thirsk last month. :whistle:

As you'd hope, there's no "This is scorching up the gallops, and is expected to win without coming off the bridle" bollocks, just selections based on racereading, form and market analysis. We also make an effort to produce a 1000-1500 word write up each day, so people know why we fancy what we do. It's a lot of hard work, and it's tough keeping the numbers up through the winter, making you wonder why you bother, but we've managed to retain a hardcore of about 100 subscribers who will happily ride out the occasional losing month, while every time we hit the motherlode, it gives the marketing boys an excuse to prepare another mailshot looking for new members. There is an element of the law of diminishing returns about that approach, though, as the mailshot is going to the same people every time. All in all, it's been a rewarding exercise, and I'd not put anyone off giving it a go themselves.
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Fair enough Rory. Some interesting points and I appreciate the insight. As it happens I was reading the spiel for a similar service today (I come across it as it was RT onto my timeline) and imagine it to be an absolute minefield for shoppers. Personally I don't consider myself the sort of person who'll ever subscribe to a premium service, but I should realise that just because I'm not, there aren't people who are. You're doing what you're doing for your own reasons but rather than being antagonistic towards anyone I should just hold my hand up with a polite 'not for me.'

The bottom line for me is that I like talking racing with anyone but I just get my satisfaction from picking my own winners (however rare it may be at times). That said I do enjoy listening to and occasionally conversing with people who know what they're talking about. You most certainly fall into that bracket from the more freely accessible pieces you have been involved with that I've seen.

Good luck with your venture.

Ps - Dave could go through next years festival cards and only then will be jokebag tag be anything resembling dropped.
 
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firstly - i've always sung Rory's praises on here..he is one of the best pundits i've listened to..i still believe that...in fact as far as understanding form and reading it..its hard to find anyone else with the grasp he has

the main problem i have with someone wanting to sell this skill..is WHY???

over the years i've seen the best people on the internet that know what they are talking about re reading form..i can name them on one hand..by username only..and they are a very small group of names.

i'll ask what i have asked before through the years..if you are as good as i think..why would you sell your knowledge when if you are that good you should have no money worries because your knowledge gives you that edge?

this is a serious question..and i speak through actually making my money now from betting on horse racing...i have no job now..my only income comes from whether or not i make money from betting horses..so i'm not sat in some comfy position of having a day job to keep the wolf from door..my question is purely based on my own position

if you can make money without the hassle of dealing with"customers"..why would you invite that hassle?

again i'll say..i'm interested in why someone would go down this route..its not a judgement..its curiosity as i've seen very good people in the last 15 years who i've wondered the same about.. with you Rory..i know you will give an answer to what has mystified me for a long time.
 
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EC1 said:
firstly - i've always sung Rory's praises on here..he is one of the best pundits i've listened to..i still believe that...in fact as far as understanding form and reading it..its hard to find anyone else with the grasp he has

the main problem i have with someone wanting to sell this skill..is WHY???

over the years i've seen the best people on the internet that know what they are talking about re reading form..i can name them on one hand..by username only..and they are a very small group of names.

i'll ask what i have asked before through the years..if you are as good as i think..why would you sell your knowledge when if you are that good you should have no money worries because your knowledge gives you that edge?

this is a serious question..and i speak through actually making my money now from betting on horse racing...i have no job now..my only income comes from whether or not i make money from betting horses..so I'm not sat in some comfy position of having a day job to keep the wolf from door

if you can make money without the hassle of dealing with"customers"..why would you invite that hassle?
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It's a fine question, EC1, and I think it might be cathartic for me to answer it in a slightly longwinded way.

They say "Those that can do, and those that can't teach", and while I might be a bit offended if someone aimed that at me, I need to acknowledge that I don't have the kind of mentality needed to raise a young family family while punting for a living (I've an 18-month old son, and another boy on the way). Betting as a professional requires a certain mindset which is impervious to the inevitable losses, and while I'm pretty even tempered as a punter, I find that taking that discipline without the safety net of a guaranteed income, either as a pundit or a tipster puts a strain on my mental equilibrium. In short, I've no problem making a modest profit when it amounts to an additional revenue stream, but I haven't the bottle to be a professional punter.

Maybe I'm in a minority here, and everyone else is able to juggle punting like a pro with a cosy home life, but I've had to swap getting up at 6.30 in the morning to write up an 8-race card for Timeform with rising at the same time to watch Toot The Tiny Tugboat and Bob The Builder with Felix. I know that compromises my ability to make a living out of betting, but swapping that around compromises my ability to be a good dad, and I've made my choice. When my wife was 8 1/2 months pregnant, I was told that I'd be losing all the work I did as a freelancer with Timeform, which at that time typically comprised writing up 90 horses a day for 4/5 days each week, plus half a dozen or so shifts on Timeform Radio. That left me with zero income and no back-up plan. I know that I was very lucky that the Irish Field approached me around the time of the Festival (thanks to Kevin Blake for that), while William Hill filled the gap left by the radio work (thanks to Niall Hannity for that). That enabled me to carry on as before, but made me aware that working as a freelancer has no guarantees, and I was keen to make sure that if I lost one of my current roles, I'd have something left in he locker.

In terms of hassle, there's been none, and fair play to Betting School for that. As I've said, it's a bit gutting to have to give a big chunk of the income for the service to someone else, but it means that all I have to do is produce some logical analysis, and spot a price rick on a regular basis. While the customers are free to send their feedback, the fact that they are prior customers of Betting School means they understand the nature of the venture, and because we're not trying to sell snake oil, the feedback is almost always encouraging. That takes a lot of potential stress out of it, and I can also rely on Dave to take the strain on days when it's a bit too manic at home.
 
Good reply, Rory.

I agree completely that there is a big difference between being a competent and serious punter and depending on it for your entire living.


How long have you been betting full time, EC1? I know your track record at picking winners is top class but didn't know that was your only living.
 
EC1 said:
firstly - i've always sung Rory's praises on here..he is one of the best pundits i've listened to..i still believe that...in fact as far as understanding form and reading it..its hard to find anyone else with the grasp he has

the main problem i have with someone wanting to sell this skill..is WHY???

over the years i've seen the best people on the internet that know what they are talking about re reading form..i can name them on one hand..by username only..and they are a very small group of names.

i'll ask what i have asked before through the years..if you are as good as i think..why would you sell your knowledge when if you are that good you should have no money worries because your knowledge gives you that edge?

this is a serious question..and i speak through actually making my money now from betting on horse racing...i have no job now..my only income comes from whether or not i make money from betting horses..so i'm not sat in some comfy position of having a day job to keep the wolf from door..my question is purely based on my own position

if you can make money without the hassle of dealing with"customers"..why would you invite that hassle?

again i'll say..i'm interested in why someone would go down this route..its not a judgement..its curiosity as i've seen very good people in the last 15 years who i've wondered the same about.. with you Rory..i know you will give an answer to what has mystified me for a long time.
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Just as a general question, why not ?

The managing director of my company earns probably 300k p.a and roughly would get half of that again in a yearly bonus. That's enough to live on for anyone putting it mildly. He'd still though have a property portfolio and dabbles in stocks and still tries to make a few quid off the horses.

Everyone has their price EC1 for instance whilst you don't understand why people would do this if I offered you a grand a week for your weekly bets no strings attached would you take it ? (obviously not a genuine offer )

Could also point out that tipping winners isn't perhaps showing them a skill its letting them see the end result of a skill. A little bit I suppose like watching the greatest magic trick you've ever seen, you can be amazed by the end product but have no idea how it happened, you couldn't perform it yourself neither could you be arsed to spend 20 years dedicating yourself to magic to become a great magician.
 
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rorydelargy said:
It's a fine question, EC1, and I think it might be cathartic for me to answer it in a slightly longwinded way.

They say "Those that can do, and those that can't teach", and while I might be a bit offended if someone aimed that at me, I need to acknowledge that I don't have the kind of mentality needed to raise a young family family while punting for a living (I've an 18-month old son, and another boy on the way). Betting as a professional requires a certain mindset which is impervious to the inevitable losses, and while I'm pretty even tempered as a punter, I find that taking that discipline without the safety net of a guaranteed income, either as a pundit or a tipster puts a strain on my mental equilibrium. In short, I've no problem making a modest profit when it amounts to an additional revenue stream, but I haven't the bottle to be a professional punter.

Maybe I'm in a minority here, and everyone else is able to juggle punting like a pro with a cosy home life, but I've had to swap getting up at 6.30 in the morning to write up an 8-race card for Timeform with rising at the same time to watch Toot The Tiny Tugboat and Bob The Builder with Felix. I know that compromises my ability to make a living out of betting, but swapping that around compromises my ability to be a good dad, and I've made my choice. When my wife was 8 1/2 months pregnant, I was told that I'd be losing all the work I did as a freelancer with Timeform, which at that time typically comprised writing up 90 horses a day for 4/5 days each week, plus half a dozen or so shifts on Timeform Radio. That left me with zero income and no back-up plan. I know that I was very lucky that the Irish Field approached me around the time of the Festival (thanks to Kevin Blake for that), while William Hill filled the gap left by the radio work (thanks to Niall Hannity for that). That enabled me to carry on as before, but made me aware that working as a freelancer has no guarantees, and I was keen to make sure that if I lost one of my current roles, I'd have something left in he locker.

In terms of hassle, there's been none, and fair play to Betting School for that. As I've said, it's a bit gutting to have to give a big chunk of the income for the service to someone else, but it means that all I have to do is produce some logical analysis, and spot a price rick on a regular basis. While the customers are free to send their feedback, the fact that they are prior customers of Betting School means they understand the nature of the venture, and because we're not trying to sell snake oil, the feedback is almost always encouraging. That takes a lot of potential stress out of it, and I can also rely on Dave to take the strain on days when it's a bit too manic at home.
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thanks for that Rory...from what i can gather there you are living in a world of great uncertainty ....probably beyond the average levels re employment in this game....so can understand completely the road you have taken..given similar sitch i'd have done same thing. I no longer have the responsibility of nippers to worry about..which at end of day is no 1 priority.

i have known a couple of people though over the years..who are more in line with my age group/responsibility .. that have run services and have said it can be a lot of grief,,and i always wondered..why bother?...its bad enough nursing your own gripes when days don't work out. Everyone has different lives and sometimes..its easy to forget that...well I know i do

you are one of the few pundits..along with Andy Holding ..that i have any time for...hope things keep working out nicely for you and that young family you have. I enjoy the will hill stuff a lot you do..keep up the good work

all the best
Alan
 
Many years ago when Marten Julian was a young man and looked more like Jesus than Jesus did he started a tipping service.

Marten lived the game and went racing every chance he got and spent lots of time on stable crawls when other would be tipsters were doing pub crawls

He still runs that service today and is the Author of "Dark Horses" and the "Winning Ways" etc.

Apart from the missing long white coat and the Jesus beard and hairstyle young Rory seems to be tarred with the same brush

He has an abundance of knowledge tucked away inside that noggin of his and never fails to surprise or entertain on air.

Success plus a book or two at some stage is surely on the way? Good luck mate.
 
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Whatever comes of the service it's been a real treat to read Rory's honest recount of the reasons, workings and implications of launching the venture.

At the risk of sounding like a real kiss-a55, I've been reading Rory's post on TRF and more recently on here for over ten years now I guess and the consistent quality of input is at the very top of the tree.

I'm not one for tipping services but if I was then I'd look no further and I wish it all the success.
 
I agree :lol: but hey! I'm sure Rory will take all the :<3: he can get in what is a very competitive business.
 
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